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Hot process soap seems sticky when wet...

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quita

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Not sure if this is a think or just normal for non-commercial soap. This is my third batch. The first was an olive/palm recipe and the second and third were my own formulated through soapcal. Those batches contained olive, palm and shea and then olive, palm, shea, cocoa and mango butters. The last 2 seems a but sticky like when they are wet and they have a more creamy lotion like lather is this normal? Is the butter content too high?

Thanks!
 

jenneelk

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Sounds like not fully cured or the recipe was off.. we def. need your exact recipe with %'s and how long you cured it for.
 

IrishLass

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Ditto what the Efficacious Gentleman and Jennee said.

In regards to the sticky feel when wet- handmade soaps behave differently than commercial soaps when wet because of how they are made. Generally, commercial types are usually triple-milled and have the glycerin removed from them, whereas with handmade it's impossible to triple-mill it without investing in some really expensive equipment like pressure rollers, etc... Also- handmade soap retains all of the naturally-occurring glycerin as a byproduct of saponification, which can feel sticky to some people. That's why well-draining soap dishes are highly recommended when using handmade soaps.


IrishLass :)
 

quita

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Ok guys I can't find the recipe I used for the olive, palm, shea but here is the one for the other
oilve oil 38%
shea butter 20%
palm kernel oil 32%
cocoa butter 7%
mango butter 3%

I let this sit out for about 2 weeks.

The olive, palm, shea cured for about 4-5 weeks. Unfortunately I can't locate the recipe. How does cure time effect stickiness. I knew a longer cure resulted in a harder bar but what else does it do?
 

jenneelk

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Interesting recipe.. I can't say I've ever used this assortment of butters and at this level without coconut oil, and I never use PKO so it's hard to relate it for me personally, sorry. My first thought was even with that amount of PKO it seemed soft but the numbers are all in line. I'll be interested to see what others say since I know soapcal isn't the end all answer and actual soap results can differ from what it tells us.

As for cure times.. it hardens the bar by drying out and water evaporation.
 

IrishLass

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Ok guys I can't find the recipe I used for the olive, palm, shea but here is the one for the other
oilve oil 38%
shea butter 20%
palm kernel oil 32%
cocoa butter 7%
mango butter 3%

I let this sit out for about 2 weeks.
The above soap is too young yet to make any final judgments. If it were me, I would let it cure for 2 to 3 more weeks. There are a lot of butters in there (which contribute to hard soap with very creamy/lotion-like lather), but with the addition of your 32% PKO, it should make for some bubbly lather once cured.

How does cure time effect stickiness. I knew a longer cure resulted in a harder bar but what else does it do?
Several things happen during cure. Besides hardening, a long cure also helps the pH to drop some, helps the lather to mature to the best it can be according to which kinds of oils/fats you used in the recipe, and it also helps the soap to become more mild to the skin.

As for stickiness, that depends on the cause. If it's the glycerin content of the soap, you may be able to manipulate your future recipes to have less of it (some saponified oils/fats produce more than others, from what I understand. Hopefully DeeAnna will chime in on that.). The ambient humidity in the air can also contribute to a feeling of stickiness from the soap, especially from the naturally-occurring glycerin in the soap, since glycerin is a humectant .


IrishLass :)
 

quita

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So does a soft bar equal a sticky bar? The bar is rock hard. Like super hard. I mean it was soft when I unmolded it but it has hardened quiet well. I could just be complaining because I am use to using commercial soap. LOL!
 

IrishLass

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I could just be complaining because I am use to using commercial soap. LOL!
I think you may have hit the nail on the head. :) Handmade soaps feel much different to my skin than commercially-made bars, which I attribute to the fact that many commercial bars have the glycerin removed from them (it gums up their milling machines, from what I've been told by others).

Glycerin in soap can indeed feel very sticky if your skin is not used to it. I've been using handmade so long now that I don't even notice it anymore, not even with my handmade liquid soap that I make with lots of added glycerin. It probably helps that I live in a very dry climate, too. What one may feel as being sticky, I feel as being moisturizing. lol


IrishLass :)
 

KristaMarie

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So does a soft bar equal a sticky bar? The bar is rock hard. Like super hard. I mean it was soft when I unmolded it but it has hardened quiet well. I could just be complaining because I am use to using commercial soap. LOL!
Yeah, as long as you have a well-draining soap dish, this is probably it!
 

quita

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The soap dish is well draining and I live in a humid climate here in SC. Also I cant believe I typed quiet instead of quite. Screaming baby and lack of sleep. :-D I want to sell on Etsy so I am just trying to get it right.
 

DeeAnna

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"...(some saponified oils/fats produce more than others, from what I understand. Hopefully DeeAnna will chime in on that...."

<nudge, nudge> Oh, hey, Irish Lass ... you called? :)

About 0.77 g glycerin is produced for every 1 gram of NaOH used when making a soap with at least a slight bit of superfat.

Overall, most soaps will average 10-11% glycerin based on the weight of the oils in the recipe. Soaps made with mostly fats that have a high saponification value -- all or mostly coconut oil, palm kernel oil, etc. -- can have up to 14% glycerin on an oil-weight basis. (Want the math? See http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=47524)

I'm not at all convinced a few % of glycerin, more or less, will make a big difference to this situation. I suspect it's the particular blend of fats in the recipe, the OP's unfamiliarity with handcrafted soap, and possibly some soap scum that's contributing to the OP's perception of stickiness. That's just my opinion, however.
 
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The Efficacious Gentleman

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In extreme cases it can look like scrambled eggs! If you have a plug strainer to stop stuff clogging your plumbing, it gathers around there often.
 

DeeAnna

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Soap scum is created by the reaction of a water-soluble sodium soap with the minerals in hard water -- calcium and magnesium. The result is a sticky, insoluble calcium soap or magnesium soap, aka "soap scum".

When particles of soap scum form, they turn the water milky white and quickly stick to any solid surface. Clothes turn grey and stiff, the bathtub or shower becomes dirty and rough, and skin feels irritated and sticky.

If you have soft water, you won't get too much (or any) soap scum. If you have hard water, you will get more, sometimes a lot more. Drinking water as it comes directly from a water source (well, spring, river, or lake) is usually "hard" in that it contains a variety of dissolved minerals.

One of the ways that hard water scum can be prevented is by "softening" the water before it is used. Some cities treat drinking water to partly soften it, but home water softeners are often used. Home softeners typically replace the hard water minerals with sodium from table salt (sodium chloride, NaCl), but it is difficult to remove all of the undesirable minerals with any water softening system.
 

quita

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Ok. My soap isn't like that at all. Just sticky. I think it's the glycerine as was stated earlier. Thanks so much for the advice guys! I actually haven't had any issues with soaping yet except for flashing some eo's. Next go round I'm going to add some clay and botanical extracts like white willow bark maybe. I'll be back with some questions then!!
 
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