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High percentage coconut oil LS with 0% SF

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rosche

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Hello everyone!

I'm from Indonesia and I'm super new in soaping world.
I'm planning to make my very first liquid soap, but there're some question I hope anyone can help to answer it before I jump to make it.

1. I calculate the lye and else in 3 different soap calculator I can find in the net. It's soapcalc, brambleberry and thesage. Now I have 3 different amount of water and lye. Which recipe should I try?

2. I want to make high percentage of coconut oil and 0% SF and go with the glycerin method. Since the water will be substitute with glycerin, is it enough to counteract the dryness that may occur because of the high percentage of coconut oil? I also will add about 20% castor oil.

I think that's all for now. Please help. >_<

Thank you very much! :*
 

lsg

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I can't get into SoapCalc, but it looks like Summer Bee Meadow lye calculator and Bramble Berry lye calculator are very similar in the lye and liquid amounts.
 

Dahila

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Even with glycerine method it will be drying. We have wonderful thread by Irishlass (glycerin) and Susie:)
 

IrishLass

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For my liquid soaps, I always go with the Summerbee Lye calculator, but ISG is correct- Brambleberry's calculator is giving me the same results as Summerbee for the same sample recipe I just typed into each, so I would go with Brambleberry (or Summerbee).

I've made a 100% coconut oil soap using the glycerin method @ 1% superfat and it was extremely drying, so the answer to your question (based on my own batch) is no- the glycerin will not off-set the dryness from the extremely high coconut oil. It makes a great dish soap if washing by hand, by the way, but only as long as I use rubber gloves. lol


IrishLass :)
 

rosche

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Thank you for the reply!

Anyway, if the glycerin doesn't help, the 20% castor also can't help?

so, in the conclusion, the only way to make this high percentage of coconut oil liquid soap not drying is superfatting it?

If the only way to make high percentage coconut oil LS not drying is by superfatting it, how much superfat will do? I've ever read that for 100% coconut oil soap bar, it will need 20% superfat. Does it apply too in liquid soap?
 
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IrishLass

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Rosche- super-fatting in liquid soap is much, much trickier than with bar soaps because of their different lyes and their different consistencies. If you use too high of a super-fat with a liquid soap, the propensity for the soap separating is pretty high if not a forgone conclusion, unless you used an emulsifier, but then there's the point of diminishing returns that you have to consider (too much emulsifier causing the liquid soap's lather to not be as bubbly). I don't know of anyone to date who has tried a 100% coconut oil liquid soap with a 20% S/F. You can certainly try making a small batch for experiment sake, but I honestly don't hold out a lot of hope for it. If you do try it, though, please let us know how it went!

The highest superfat that I do with my liquid soap is 6% (in my cocoa-shea formula that I posted in one of then threads here). If you are looking for a wonderfully bubbly, non-drying (at least to me and my family) liquid soap formula, please feel free to try that one out. It's made using the glycerin method of liquid soap-making, and I do use an emulsifier with that one (PS80), because if I don't, it separates. I'll see if I can find a link to it.


ETA: Here's the link to the thread- the recipe is in post #15: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114

IrishLass :)
 
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seven

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Just wanna say hello, i'm from indonesia too :)
 

DeeAnna

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"...I calculate the lye and else in 3 different soap calculator I can find in the net. It's soapcalc, brambleberry and thesage. Now I have 3 different amount of water and lye. Which recipe should I try?..."

The short answer is pick one calc and stick with it. The main reason why you're getting different KOH amounts is all three calcs you used are set up for different KOH purities. The water will thus vary because the lye weights vary. Here's more from another post I wrote:

"...Most of the calcs are set for 100% KOH purity ... with three exceptions: SoapCalc (90% or 100% KOH purity), Brambleberry (95%), and Summer Bee Meadow (94%). My suggestion for making liquid soap is to check the purity of the KOH you are using and choose the calc that is based on the KOH purity closest to what you're actually using. By choosing the "wrong" calc for your KOH, you could end up with liquid soap that is lye heavy or fat heavy...."

Source: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=482806&postcount=323

***

Sometimes your KOH purity may be quite different than what any of the calcs are based on. So another way to correct the KOH purity is to use the calc you like best and adjust the KOH weight to correct for the purity of the KOH you are using --

KOH you need = (KOH based on calc's purity) X (Calc's KOH purity) / (Actual KOH purity)

Example: You use SBM calc which is set for 94% purity. Your actual KOH is 85%. The calc says you need 145 g of KOH at the calc's default purity. The weight of KOH that you need at your actual purity of 85% is this:

KOH you need = (145 g) X 94 / 85 = 160 g

***

Most calcs with the exception of Summerbee need to be adjusted to calculate a LS recipe correctly. Change the lye solution concentration to 25% so there is enough water in the recipe. Also set the superfat from 1% to 3% if you do not want to neutralize the finished soap. Superfat above about 3% is likely to cause separation in your finished diluted LS. This is how most of us on SMF make LS.
 
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rosche

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Hello DeeAnna. Thank you for your answer. I realize the difference maybe because at soap calc, I use water amount percentage from oil weight. When I choose the lye concentration in 25%, the result is similar with the other soap calculator :D

So far, I've made 3 batches. The first 2 batches failed. Hahaha. I overcooked the paste. It smells awful eventhough it still can be dikulued and become a soap, just smelly.

The third is fine, I guess. Haha. The first batches has 50% coconut oil and the second 40%. Indeed, both are drying.

The third has 35% coconut oil and it turns out well. X)

Gosh, soapmaking is fun. :D
 

nsmar4211

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IrishLass-New soaper, but my first recipe was the 100% coconut oil at 20% superfat. Now that the first bar is a few weeks old, I've been using it to wash my hands in the bathroom. Big bubbles, haven't noticed any dryness and I wash my hands probably 10x a day from all my hobbies.... Just made my third batch. Second batch is only a week old but no issues :).

33oz coconut (76 degree which means its liquid here)
4.8 oz lye
9.6 oz water



Sets rock hard pretty quick, so either use individual molds or keep a close eye on it. Cut it only a few hours later!

Also did one with more water, didn't really notice a difference other than it was med hard instead of rock hard in 16 hours

20oz coconut
2.93 lye
7.00 water
 

DeeAnna

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Hi, Nsmar -- Sounds like you're having very good results with your coconut oil bar soaps. Kudos to you! Just thought I'd mention ... this particular discussion is about 100% coconut oil ~liquid~ soap. It can be kind of confusing, because threads in the beginner forum are mostly about bar soap, but many of us liquid soap makers are beginners too! :)
 

Seawolfe

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I used to be afraid of 0%SF 100% coconut oil soap - whether liquid or bar. Now that I have made and regularly use both (LS for my dishes and grated bar soap for laundry etc). I really like these soaps and find them very effective, and funny enough they don't dry my hands out, and I used to have to moisturize my hands all the time.
 

nsmar4211

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Bwahaha ok THAT's what LS stands for :). :clap::angel:

I wonder though, if the 100% coconut oil is such a pain to do as a liquid, would it be safer/more effective to make it as a bar soap and then just grate it and dissolve in water? That would eliminate the seperation factor, no?
 

Seawolfe

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Truly, LS is no more of a pain to do than HP bar soap - easier because you don't have to mold/unmold/cut. I dont know why some people fear LS - other than perhaps they cant find KOH? But lots of places sell it...

Anyways - dissolved bar soap in water makes snot. Seperating, gelling, snot. Most everyone tries it when they are new, cause it seems like it should work. It works in a very vague sense - like if you had nothing else it might suit, but its certainly not ideal.

Bwahaha ok THAT's what LS stands for :). :clap::angel:

I wonder though, if the 100% coconut oil is such a pain to do as a liquid, would it be safer/more effective to make it as a bar soap and then just grate it and dissolve in water? That would eliminate the seperation factor, no?
 

nsmar4211

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Oooo snot! That's snot good! :). Scratch that idea right off the shelf :).
 

DeeAnna

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Every so often someone will claim they can make liquid soap by grating a bar (NaOH) soap and adding water. We tried a number of recipes and several methods of making "liquid soap" using an NaOH soap. The results varied depending on the kinds of oils used to make the soap, but the conclusion that most of us came to is ... it still doesn't work. Here's the thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=52597
 
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