Help! Epic newbie fail!

[Larisa B]

I just made my first batch of soap using a recipe I found online. It was so small, so like a newbie, I tripled it only to find out that soap making doesn’t work like that and now I have some thick runny soap in molds for two days. Can I save it?
Below are my measurements:
9 oz coconut oil
3 oz jojoba oil
75 oz olive oil
11.16 oz lye
30 oz distilled water
I’m making a super fatty baby soap.
Any help would be appreciated!!! Thank you

 

[steffamarie]

My first advice to you would be to always ALWAYS run your recipe through a lye calculator like soapcalc.net, no matter if you're tripling it or just doing it as listed. That way if anyone mistyped anything you'll have the corrections. If I run that recipe through at 5% superfat (I'm not sure what percent they wanted you to use), it says you should use 11.41 oz of lye. Which means your superfat is probably just over 5% which is just fine.

What's jumping out to me is 3oz distilled water. Did you mistype that? That is way too little water. I'm thinking you meant 30oz which is about the maximum amount of water that this recipe can handle. That could be contributing to why your soap is so runny. Also, olive oil soap stays runny for a very long time.

ETA: Jojoba oil does not fully saponify. It isn't an oil, it's actually a liquid wax. People do use it in soap in small percentages, but it may contribute to softness.

Pictures would be great, temperatures also if you have them. Describe your method if you remember. All the information you can give us will help us help you!!

 

[dibbles]

First of all, that is a huge batch for your first one. My normal batches use about 32 ounces of oils. I'm also wondering if the water amount is correct. 3 ounces is not nearly enough water. Did you use a lye calculator?

ETA: Looks like steffamarie has the same questions.

 

[Larisa B]

Thanks so much for the speedy response; you’re right about the water. That was a typo! I’ve edited it now and will answer some questions below...

I mixed all oils together and heated them,
Mixed the lye and water and let that dissolve.
I combined them when they were both approx 120•F.
Then I stirred with a spoon for 3.5hrs. They stopped separating and I needed to get to bed so I poured them in the mold. they have been there for 2 days. They are in steel baking pans lined with parchment paper, covered and wrapped with cardboard and towels.
I will post pictures ASAP.

Your suggestions to use a lye calc are noted, good idea! I’ve been researching online for hours and some suggestions I read were to put it back into the slow cooker and add more lye. Things that I’m curious about are: will this work? Do I add the lye as is or mix it with more water? If it’s going to make matters worse, should I just accept this as a fail? Can I keep it and use it as a liquid soap after about 6 weeks curing time?

Thanks so much for the help. I’ll post photos in the next hour. I have a napping baby on my lap

My first advice to you would be to always ALWAYS run your recipe through a lye calculator like soapcalc.net, no matter if you're tripling it or just doing it as listed. That way if anyone mistyped anything you'll have the corrections. If I run that recipe through at 5% superfat (I'm not sure what percent they wanted you to use), it says you should use 11.41 oz of lye. Which means your superfat is probably just over 5% which is just fine.

What's jumping out to me is 3oz distilled water. Did you mistype that? That is way too little water. I'm thinking you meant 30oz which is about the maximum amount of water that this recipe can handle. That could be contributing to why your soap is so runny. Also, olive oil soap stays runny for a very long time.

ETA: Jojoba oil does not fully saponify. It isn't an oil, it's actually a liquid wax. People do use it in soap in small percentages, but it may contribute to softness.

Pictures would be great, temperatures also if you have them. Describe your method if you remember. All the information you can give us will help us help you!!

First of all, that is a huge batch for your first one. My normal batches use about 32 ounces of oils. I'm also wondering if the water amount is correct. 3 ounces is not nearly enough water. Did you use a lye calculator?

ETA: Looks like steffamarie has the same questions.

In hindsight I’ve made a big mistake. I had no idea that it would be a problem. It doesn’t actually feel like that much, I have two trays worth for gifts. I was being too ambitious.

Water is 30oz, that was a typo.

Thanks! Any suggestions?

 

[amd]

I mixed all oils together and heated them,
Mixed the lye and water and let that dissolve.
I combined them when they were both approx 120•F.
Then I stirred with a spoon for 3.5hrs. They stopped separating and I needed to get to bed so I poured them in the mold. they have been there for 2 days. They are in steel baking pans lined with parchment paper, covered and wrapped with cardboard and towels.
I will post pictures ASAP.

1. Get a stickblender. Hand stirring is inefficient for making soap. It's doable, but as you've already experienced it takes a long time.

2. Don't use metal for soap molds. Very few metals are soap safe (stainless steel is one that is), and will give off toxic vapors when exposed to sodium hydroxide. Even lined, I would be extremely hesitant to use any metal for soap molds. What you can do is reinforce cardboard boxes (even shoe boxes, cereal or cracker boxes, pringles cans - google) to use as a mold if you don't want to buy a silicone baking pan or something else more suitable.

3. You are using a lot of olive oil, it may take several days to properly setup, although even my 100% castile is setup at two days, not sure if the jojoba oil would affect the setup time as I haven't used it in regular soap. Did you use sodium hydroxide (NaOH) or did you mistakenly buy potassium hydroxide (KOH)? NaOH is correct for bar soap, but KOH is used for liquid soap, so it will make a soft soap paste and not setup to a bar form.

Edited to add: also, with that much olive oil it will require a long cure. At about 85% of your recipe it will probably need around 6 months cure to be a nice soap.

 

[steffamarie]

put it back into the slow cooker and add more lye

Do not do this. Your soap isn't overly superfatted. You added the right amount of lye but as amd said, maybe you purchased KOH?? That seems like an easy mistake to make.

If you did, the soap will still be good to use, just very soft. You can also dilute it with distilled water and ta-da you've made liquid soap!

ETA: It's not a fail! Whichever way you look at this, you made soap. You've learned a lot and next time you can make a smaller amount in a better mold (potentially with the correct caustic depending on what you used). You'll remember to use a calculator and maybe even get yourself a stick blender! The one I use is this and it works great. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007V8PYFU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Larisa B]

Thanks so much for the speedy response; you’re right about the water. That was a typo! I’ve edited it now and will answer some questions below...

I mixed all oils together and heated them,
Mixed the lye and water and let that dissolve.
I combined them when they were both approx 120•F.
Then I stirred with a spoon for 3.5hrs. They stopped separating and I needed to get to bed so I poured them in the mold. they have been there for 2 days. They are in steel baking pans lined with parchment paper, covered and wrapped with cardboard and towels.
I will post pictures ASAP.

Your suggestions to use a lye calc are noted, good idea! I’ve been researching online for hours and some suggestions I read were to put it back into the slow cooker and add more lye. Things that I’m curious about are: will this work? Do I add the lye as is or mix it with more water? If it’s going to make matters worse, should I just accept this as a fail? Can I keep it and use it as a liquid soap after about 6 weeks curing time?

Thanks so much for the help. I’ll post photos in the next hour. I have a napping baby on my lap

Pictures

My first advice to you would be to always ALWAYS run your recipe through a lye calculator like soapcalc.net, no matter if you're tripling it or just doing it as listed. That way if anyone mistyped anything you'll have the corrections. If I run that recipe through at 5% superfat (I'm not sure what percent they wanted you to use), it says you should use 11.41 oz of lye. Which means your superfat is probably just over 5% which is just fine.

What's jumping out to me is 3oz distilled water. Did you mistype that? That is way too little water. I'm thinking you meant 30oz which is about the maximum amount of water that this recipe can handle. That could be contributing to why your soap is so runny. Also, olive oil soap stays runny for a very long time.

ETA: Jojoba oil does not fully saponify. It isn't an oil, it's actually a liquid wax. People do use it in soap in small percentages, but it may contribute to softness.

Pictures would be great, temperatures also if you have them. Describe your method if you remember. All the information you can give us will help us help you!!

Thanks so much for the speedy response; you’re right about the water. That was a typo! I’ve edited it now and will answer some questions below...

I mixed all oils together and heated them,
Mixed the lye and water and let that dissolve.
I combined them when they were both approx 120•F.
Then I stirred with a spoon for 3.5hrs. They stopped separating and I needed to get to bed so I poured them in the mold. they have been there for 2 days. They are in steel baking pans lined with parchment paper, covered and wrapped with cardboard and towels.
I will post pictures ASAP.

Your suggestions to use a lye calc are noted, good idea! I’ve been researching online for hours and some suggestions I read were to put it back into the slow cooker and add more lye. Things that I’m curious about are: will this work? Do I add the lye as is or mix it with more water? If it’s going to make matters worse, should I just accept this as a fail? Can I keep it and use it as a liquid soap after about 6 weeks curing time?

Thanks so much for the help. I’ll post photos in the next hour. I have a napping baby on my lap

Pictures are below. It seems harder today so I’ve added photos of it on an angle so you can see. It’s still soft though. The silicone mold picture is the leftovers that are outside so you can see the texture

 

[amd]

The pan in the first picture does not look lined, I would toss it.
It looks like you may have used KOH. Can you confirm what type of lye you used?

 

[Larisa B]

1. Get a stickblender. Hand stirring is inefficient for making soap. It's doable, but as you've already experienced it takes a long time.

2. Don't use metal for soap molds. Very few metals are soap safe (stainless steel is one that is), and will give off toxic vapors when exposed to sodium hydroxide. Even lined, I would be extremely hesitant to use any metal for soap molds. What you can do is reinforce cardboard boxes (even shoe boxes, cereal or cracker boxes, pringles cans - google) to use as a mold if you don't want to buy a silicone baking pan or something else more suitable.

3. You are using a lot of olive oil, it may take several days to properly setup, although even my 100% castile is setup at two days, not sure if the jojoba oil would affect the setup time as I haven't used it in regular soap. Did you use sodium hydroxide (NaOH) or did you mistakenly buy potassium hydroxide (KOH)? NaOH is correct for bar soap, but KOH is used for liquid soap, so it will make a soft soap paste and not setup to a bar form.

Edited to add: also, with that much olive oil it will require a long cure. At about 85% of your recipe it will probably need around 6 months cure to be a nice soap.

These are all really good points. I attached a photo, the packaging is very limited on details. Would this be used for hard super soft soap? I couldn’t find my stick blender but now I see that I should use it next time. I hope this doesn’t take six months to cure, ha ha

Do not do this. Your soap isn't overly superfatted. You added the right amount of lye but as amd said, maybe you purchased KOH?? That seems like an easy mistake to make.

If you did, the soap will still be good to use, just very soft. You can also dilute it with distilled water and ta-da you've made liquid soap!

ETA: It's not a fail! Whichever way you look at this, you made soap. You've learned a lot and next time you can make a smaller amount in a better mold (potentially with the correct caustic depending on what you used). You'll remember to use a calculator and maybe even get yourself a stick blender! The one I use is this and it works great. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007V8PYFU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thank you for the encouragement, this feels really good. I’m hoping that I can use the soap whether it makes a hard bar or not

1. Get a stickblender. Hand stirring is inefficient for making soap. It's doable, but as you've already experienced it takes a long time.

2. Don't use metal for soap molds. Very few metals are soap safe (stainless steel is one that is), and will give off toxic vapors when exposed to sodium hydroxide. Even lined, I would be extremely hesitant to use any metal for soap molds. What you can do is reinforce cardboard boxes (even shoe boxes, cereal or cracker boxes, pringles cans - google) to use as a mold if you don't want to buy a silicone baking pan or something else more suitable.

3. You are using a lot of olive oil, it may take several days to properly setup, although even my 100% castile is setup at two days, not sure if the jojoba oil would affect the setup time as I haven't used it in regular soap. Did you use sodium hydroxide (NaOH) or did you mistakenly buy potassium hydroxide (KOH)? NaOH is correct for bar soap, but KOH is used for liquid soap, so it will make a soft soap paste and not setup to a bar form.

Edited to add: also, with that much olive oil it will require a long cure. At about 85% of your recipe it will probably need around 6 months cure to be a nice soap.

In regards to the metal molds, does it make the soap dangerous to use or to be around while it’s curing? I’ll make some other molds. Considering how soft the soap is, I may think of transferring it?

The pan in the first picture does not look lined, I would toss it.
It looks like you may have used KOH. Can you confirm what type of lye you used?

You are right that the first pan is not lined. It was and when I poured the soap and it was so liquidy that the parchment paper shifted and it made a mess. Why do I have to toss it? With the metal have reacted? I think it’s stainless steel but I can check

 

[amd]

Even if it doesn't react, I would be concerned with developing DOS (dreaded orange spots), which can be caused by (most commonly) oils going rancid or exposure to metals - via molds, metal curing trays or racks etc. My first curing rack was a stainless steel shoe rack, and all of my soaps on that rack developed DOS. Once I stopped using the rack my soaps stopped getting DOS. Even though it was stainless steel, I suspect it was just a thin plating over another type of metal that was causing the issue. If you plan to give these as gifts, your recipients may be receiving soap that could develop DOS before they can properly use it.

 

[Larisa B]

Even if it doesn't react, I would be concerned with developing DOS (dreaded orange spots), which can be caused by (most commonly) oils going rancid or exposure to metals - via molds, metal curing trays or racks etc. My first curing rack was a stainless steel shoe rack, and all of my soaps on that rack developed DOS. Once I stopped using the rack my soaps stopped getting DOS. Even though it was stainless steel, I suspect it was just a thin plating over another type of metal that was causing the issue. If you plan to give these as gifts, your recipients may be receiving soap that could develop DOS before they can properly use it.

That’s fair, I can Google it but does this make this soap unusable because it’s unsafe or just visually not nice? Thank you for mentioning this. I guess we all have these learning curves

 

[steffamarie]

The soap isn't technically unusable but it won't smell nice at all and it does look ugly. If any of my soaps got DOS I would throw them out. Half the fun is the yummy smell - I don't want to wash with icky smelling soap!!

 

[DeeAnna]

It may simply be that your soap is saponifying very slowly and remaining soft in the mold for several reasons including overly high water content (27% lye concentration), stirring only by hand, and a recipe with a high percentage of olive oil.

Give the soap at least a week in the mold and see what it looks like at that point. Learn how to zap test while you wait (there is a sticky post about zap testing in either the lye-based soap forum or beginner soap making forum). Very, very cautiously test this soap when you do zap test it.

If the pan that wasn't properly lined is steel or stainless steel, your soap will be at higher risk for turning rancid (aka DOS), but if that risk doesn't bother you, then it certainly doesn't bother me.

If the pan is aluminum, explosive hydrogen gas is generated when aluminum and sodium hydroxide react with each other. I suspect you're probably past that tricky point by now, so the danger is pretty much over. The risk of rancidity from aluminum is fairly low.

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome, Larisa! I just ran your recipe through SoapCalc with the corrected 30 oz water, and it looks like you used a 27 lye concentration, as DeeAnna mentioned above (27.1% if you want to be super precise ). And it showed your superfat as being 7.01%.

For the kind of soap you made (high olive oil + jojoba to boot), that's a whole lot of water. It may be soft and hard to unmold gracefully in one piece for a week or 2, but it will eventually get hard enough to do so, and then further harden as it cures. (this is based on my own experience making high olive oil soaps with a lot of water)

I guess you just learned one of the most important first lessons of soap-making- don't trust recipes you find online at face value. lol Always run them through a lye calculator, and even once you do- post them here on the forum before making it so that we can supply you with any helpful details that the calculator cannot provide (such as 27% water is a whole lot of water for a high olive oil soap).


IrishLass

 

[Larisa B]

Welcome, Larisa! I just ran your recipe through SoapCalc with the corrected 30 oz water, and it looks like you used a 27 lye concentration, as DeeAnna mentioned above (27.1% if you want to be super precise ). And it showed your superfat as being 7.01%.

For the kind of soap you made (high olive oil + jojoba to boot), that's a whole lot of water. It may be soft and hard to unmold gracefully in one piece for a week or 2, but it will eventually get hard enough to do so, and then further harden as it cures. (this is based on my own experience making high olive oil soaps with a lot of water)

I guess you just learned one of the most important first lessons of soap-making- don't trust recipes you find online at face value. lol Always run them through a lye calculator, and even once you do- post them here on the forum before making it so that we can supply you with any helpful details that the calculator cannot provide (such as 27% water is a whole lot of water for a high olive oil soap).


IrishLass

Thank you so much for all the help - to everyone! I’m glad I found this resource. I would like to try some other recipes now that I have some knowledge and left over ingredients. One question, the lye that I bought (picture above), do you know if it’s appropriate for hard CP soaps? I guess I’ll just let this one sit and wait to see if it hardens enough to cut.

I’m planning on leaving the one in the stainless steel pan too (I made sure nothing was aluminium). I’ll see if it goes rancid. This was meant to be more of a moisturizing baby wash. Would it be a bad idea to transfer it into a silicone mold at this point?

Next time, I will post the recipe here first as there seem to be lots of knowledgeable soap makers. I am also going to check out the lye calculator.

Thanks again for everyone’s help! I have learned a lot.

 

[DeeAnna]

At this point in your soaping career, I'd not focus on making things for babies and I certainly would not use this particular batch of soap on an infant or small child. Try it on yourself and other adults in the coming months. Learn about making good soap first. And learn about what kind of soap you like best. If you are like many of us, you will think your first soap is absolutely amazing ... until you compare it to soap you make after you have a year or so of experience.

Leave the soap in the pan. Any damage is already done at this point. No point in dealing with soap that may be actively lye heavy -- and no point in messing up more dishes and utensils to wash.

The picture of the front label isn't too helpful. The word "lye" is a generic term that means any liquid alkali mixture that can be used to make soap. "Lye" could be a solution of water and NaOH (sodium hydroxide) or KOH (potassium hydroxide) or other alkali chemicals. That said, many people use "lye" in a looser sense to mean sodium hydroxide in its dry form as well as when made into a water solution.

So your product could be NaOH, but it's not perfectly clear to me that it is, based only on the front label. Read the back of the label -- it should give the specific chemical name if labels in Canada are anything like labels in the US.

 

[Deborah Long]

@Larisa B Welcome! As you can see from my profile, I've been here for almost 2 months at this point and made maybe 5 or 6 batches of soap - lots smaller batches than you started with, however! lol I started out doing CP soap with the idea in mind that I could make soap for my niece's baby due in November and gave myself a couple of months to 'perfect' my method. LOL Jokes on me, eh? What I've learned in my oh-so-very-few batches is that even using the same basic recipe - everything changes with every change you make.
When I use a different EO/FO, it changes. When I use a different colorant, it changes. Good lesson to learn, for me!
Now I'm after a 1 lb mold so that my batches can be even smaller while I'm 'playing'. I figure that even though this baby may be 3 years old before he gets his bastille soap from Aunt Debi, I'm having a blast, learning a lot and everyone will have smelly soap for Christmas!
Enjoy the process as much as I am!

P.S. This forum and the people in it are just amazing to me! So helpful, not judgemental and they just don't care that you're a newbie. They want you to be successful and safe...

 

[Larisa B]

At this point in your soaping career, I'd not focus on making things for babies and I certainly would not use this particular batch of soap on an infant or small child. Try it on yourself and other adults in the coming months. Learn about making good soap first. And learn about what kind of soap you like best. If you are like many of us, you will think your first soap is absolutely amazing ... until you compare it to soap you make after you have a year or so of experience.

Leave the soap in the pan. Any damage is already done at this point. No point in dealing with soap that may be actively lye heavy -- and no point in messing up more dishes and utensils to wash.

The picture of the front label isn't too helpful. The word "lye" is a generic term that means any liquid alkali mixture that can be used to make soap. "Lye" could be a solution of water and NaOH (sodium hydroxide) or KOH (potassium hydroxide) or other alkali chemicals. That said, many people use "lye" in a looser sense to mean sodium hydroxide in its dry form as well as when made into a water solution.

So your product could be NaOH, but it's not perfectly clear to me that it is, based only on the front label. Read the back of the label -- it should give the specific chemical name if labels in Canada are anything like labels in the US.

It is particularly odd and the reason I only included that label was because that’s all the info there is. The side labels only speak of directions and since it’s not a soap making kit it has nothing to do with soap. I should probably leave it and continue practicing with other recipes first.

@Larisa B Welcome! As you can see from my profile, I've been here for almost 2 months at this point and made maybe 5 or 6 batches of soap - lots smaller batches than you started with, however! lol I started out doing CP soap with the idea in mind that I could make soap for my niece's baby due in November and gave myself a couple of months to 'perfect' my method. LOL Jokes on me, eh? What I've learned in my oh-so-very-few batches is that even using the same basic recipe - everything changes with every change you make.
When I use a different EO/FO, it changes. When I use a different colorant, it changes. Good lesson to learn, for me!
Now I'm after a 1 lb mold so that my batches can be even smaller while I'm 'playing'. I figure that even though this baby may be 3 years old before he gets his bastille soap from Aunt Debi, I'm having a blast, learning a lot and everyone will have smelly soap for Christmas!
Enjoy the process as much as I am!

P.S. This forum and the people in it are just amazing to me! So helpful, not judgemental and they just don't care that you're a newbie. They want you to be successful and safe...

I totally agree with what you said. I’m feeling a lot of support and am grateful. You’re right, I need wayyyyy more practice before I sell. It’s been fun though! Haha thanks for your little story

 

[Obsidian]

Is that lye the home hardware brand? I found the msds sheet and it says 100% sodium hydroxide

 

[Deborah Long]

@Larisa B Hahaha! I have no intention of selling my soap! I honestly, just wanted to make the baby bastille! lol