For UK/EU soap makers. CPNP portal help

[JuliaNegusuk]

I don't understand the food thing either. Some shops sell soaps that look exactly like cup cakes or even whole cakes that you cut slices out complete with "whipped cream" and "cherries"and all!

Dead groovy - yes, the info provided by your certifier looks like standard stuff and is how I do my soap. What I call the after method - after the ingredients have been combined and are actually soap. My understanding is you can also use the (what I call) before method, which tells you the ingredients before they go into the mix and become soap. Some people prefer this because it sounds more natural. You can list your oils and other ingredients in english, recogniseable names. However, you also need to include the INCI names, and this can make the ingredients list rather long. You also must include the less paletable ingredients like sodium hydroxide. Some people "forget"to do this. And you can't put good things like glycerin in because they aren't technically an ingredient (unless you added it extra). So your list might look like - olive oil (oliva europaea), coconut oil (coca nucifera), palm oil (elaeis guineensis), water (aqua), sodium hydroxide, lavender essential
oil (lavendula augustifolia oil) etc etc.

What worried me about the way you set out you sample label is that you have combined the before method with the after method. I don't think this is right. Either you are saying the ingredients are oils and stuff going in, or the soap that comes out after it is mixed together and becomes actual soap. It can't be both at once. In trying to make it both at once it doesn't make sense, and you are identifying the nice natural things like the oils, and not mentioning the sodium hydroxide as a seperate ingredient, in english. I just don't think this is right. But as I have said previously, I am super pernickity, but I might also be right! But I as on my own as you are. I would check with your certifier if you want to be sure you are doing it right.

 

[Deadgroovy]

I don't understand the food thing either. Some shops sell soaps that look exactly like cup cakes or even whole cakes that you cut slices out complete with "whipped cream" and "cherries"and all!

Dead groovy - yes, the info provided by your certifier looks like standard stuff and is how I do my soap. What I call the after method - after the ingredients have been combined and are actually soap. My understanding is you can also use the (what I call) before method, which tells you the ingredients before they go into the mix and become soap. Some people prefer this because it sounds more natural. You can list your oils and other ingredients in english, recogniseable names. However, you also need to include the INCI names, and this can make the ingredients list rather long. You also must include the less paletable ingredients like sodium hydroxide. Some people "forget"to do this. And you can't put good things like glycerin in because they aren't technically an ingredient (unless you added it extra). So your list might look like - olive oil (oliva europaea), coconut oil (coca nucifera), palm oil (elaeis guineensis), water (aqua), sodium hydroxide, lavender essential
oil (lavendula augustifolia oil) etc etc.

What worried me about the way you set out you sample label is that you have combined the before method with the after method. I don't think this is right. Either you are saying the ingredients are oils and stuff going in, or the soap that comes out after it is mixed together and becomes actual soap. It can't be both at once. In trying to make it both at once it doesn't make sense, and you are identifying the nice natural things like the oils, and not mentioning the sodium hydroxide as a seperate ingredient, in english. I just don't think this is right. But as I have said previously, I am super pernickity, but I might also be right! But I as on my own as you are. I would check with your certifier if you want to be sure you are doing it right.

Yes, I agree with what you have pointed out and I'm going to change it to the INCI way as my assessor has recommended.
Also totally agree with you about the cupcake type soap. It definitely states in some regs I've read (can't remember where) that soap cannot resemble food stuffs. Maybe we should start shopping them to trading standards!

 

[LilyJo]

As far as labelling is concerned, your assessor will give you the correct details to be included so please domnt worry about which method or which to use. There is a section on the safety assessment that shows how the product should be labelled. Based on my assessments and conversations with the assesor you do NOT need to specify sodium hydroxide but please dont take my word (or anyone elses for that matter), follow what your assessor specified - that is why you use them and why they have to indemnity insurance!

Very interesting post would there be any chance this could be pinned to make it easy for those selling or wanting to sell in the eu to see the regs and discuss any concerns they might have.

Im not ready for selling yet but even though im only giving as testers and gifts for feedback iv made a label granted it wont be complient to selling regs but i decided it was important to list any ingridients just in case someone has an allergy. What i have done is made them into a little leaflet which explains about the use of lye but it not being in the final product so the users are aware and can see it wont be causing any harm to the final user. I like this idea and when i hopfully do get round to selling will likely be doing this regardless of whether its included on the label as i think its important for these things to be made aware to the buyer. The leaflet also has simple care guidelines to help the buyer get the best out of the soap like using a drained soap dish and letting it dry out between uses especially when used in the shower iv done the same with my candles and melt again not selling but even as gifts and samples feel its important to tell people these things.

@LilyJo when you say it cant smell like food how on earth can you sell something like a choc orange candle or wax melt? Surely the fact that its clearly a candle and looks nothing like a choc orange means it cant be mistaken for the chocolate sweet as long as you dont go making it in the shape of orange pieces? Companies sell them for use in candles right?

No the food imitation rules state that you cannot sell something that could be confused for a food idea - so you cannot make a chocolate orange wax melt that looks and smells like chocolate orange as it could be mistaken.

 

[Chris_S]

No the food imitation rules state that you cannot sell something that could be confused for a food idea - so you cannot make a chocolate orange wax melt that looks and smells like chocolate orange as it could be mistaken.

Got you so a flower shaped wax melt thats scented with orange would be ok. Awesome thank you for clearing that up for me i have tried to read through all the rules and regs but think i must of either misunderstood that or just forgotten. Im concentrating on candles at the moment and getting them all sorted and legal then going to get more research done on soaps and finding a recipe i would like to make.

Out of interest anyone who uses fo where do you buy them from? Iv been getting mine from supplies for candles also the same company as soap supplies and iv got to say im very happy with the smells and quality of them just wish they didnt have a standard 6 quid post charge

 

[LilyJo]

Got you so a flower shaped wax melt thats scented with orange would be ok. Awesome thank you for clearing that up for me i have tried to read through all the rules and regs but think i must of either misunderstood that or just forgotten. Im concentrating on candles at the moment and getting them all sorted and legal then going to get more research done on soaps and finding a recipe i would like to make.

Out of interest anyone who uses fo where do you buy them from? Iv been getting mine from supplies for candles also the same company as soap supplies and iv got to say im very happy with the smells and quality of them just wish they didnt have a standard 6 quid post charge

Yep, thats pretty much standard tbh.

Dont forget if you making wax products they have to comply with CLP regs and they have a maximum percentage that can be added as well!

 

[Chris_S]

Yep, thats pretty much standard tbh.

Dont forget if you making wax products they have to comply with CLP regs and they have a maximum percentage that can be added as well!

Yes thats one the reasons i like that site for fo because the %s are easy to find for soaps too. Think all i need to double check on is the dye i use is acceptable. I dont usually use max amount in either soap or candles though use more in melts than i do candles.

thank you for all the advice given its much appreciated

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Wow, thanks LilyJo, I have learnt something today. I could have sworn there were two methods of labelling soaps, not just the one "after saponification method". I have seen it somewhere, perhaps on an American website as they seem to do things differently. I couldn't have made something that detailed up! However, I still feel strongly that if you are going to tell people that soap contains natural oils etc, you should also tell people it contains sodium hydroxide! But that's just a personal thing. So there Deadgroovy, you could probably do what want with your labelling - but I still won't agree, but we'll have to agree to differ!

Interestingly my safety assessor seems to do things a bit differently. I didn't have to send of MSDNs etc.

 

[reeeen4]

I've seen someone in Australia labeling there stuff as "saponified olive oil, saponified coconut oil etc" not sure if you could get away using that where you are.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I've seen someone in Australia labeling there stuff as "saponified olive oil, saponified coconut oil etc" not sure if you could get away using that where you are.

No. The regulations are pretty tight in the EU. It's a blessing and a curse