Coronavirus

[beckster51]

I'm a dreadful fence-sitter. I am one of those people who hears and understands both sides of the story. As I say, I am pleased that I live somewhere that allows me the breathing space to sit on said fence and there is no pressure either way. Like I said earlier, if I lived somewhere where COVID-19 was more prevalent I'm sure I would be acting one way or another.

The only problem with being a fence sitter is that eventually the virus will find you, even if you presently live in a low risk area. It is all over the world, and we are a global community these days. Since the common cold is a coronavirus, you can bet that Covid-19 will be here in some form from now on. Hopefully, eventually enough people will become vaccinated that we will have herd immunity and quit passing it around constantly. So, I hope you fall off the fence on the vaccination eventually before New Zealand totally opens up, and it will in time.

 

[earlene]

This is a bunch of effing bovine male excrement! Just because someone chooses to not get vaccinated for Covid 19 does NOT make them an anti-vaxxer, doesn't NOT make them belligerent, does NOT make them less discerning, does NOT make them selfish, does NOT make them stupid or whatever other insult you can come up.

I am not vaccinated. My husband is. None of my children are (including the one who had Covid). One sister is vaccinated, one is not, none of their children are. Out of the seven people in our office, two of us are not vaccinated, one had Covid and is not vaccinated, the rest are (when one of the guys in the office found out that I was not going to get vaccinated, he became insulting and belittling...boss put a stop to that). Of two DILs, one is vaccinated, one is not. It should be noted that everyone is an adult (30+).

Since the very beginning of Covid-19, there has been a LOT of misinformation put before the public. Some of it was due to lack of understanding of Covid-19, some of it was due to the changing nature of the virus, a lot of it was political; and unfortunately, at least in the US, the politics has not stopped. And the virus hasn't stopped changing either. The media has down played it a lot, but the vaccine isn't effective against the variant out of India.

As of right now, I am not comfortable with subjecting myself to a vaccine for a new virus that was less than a year old. I understand that science is constantly working on vaccine and for any one to say: "The vaccine was NOT created quickly. After the SARS 2003 outbreak, a vaccine went into pre-clinical animal testing, and scientists knew to target the spike protein. When Covid -19 showed up, all they had to do was tweak proteins and DNA strands, test to see it was effective, then test to double check safety." is mind-blowing. Consider this...this person wants folks to believe that a vaccine that has been in development for 16-17 years for a virus that globally affected less than 10,000 people and hasn't been seen since (expect in a lab) was able to be quickly made with a little 'tweaking' and we're just supposed to accept that?!? No. No.

I do not believe, nor did I say that every person who does not get the vaccine is an anti-vaxxer. Nor do I believe, nor did I say that every person who does not get the vaccine is either non-discerning or belligerent. I did not use the word selfish, and I did not call anyone stupid. In fact, I called people discerning, whether you read it that way or not. However, I can see how you inferred the word 'selfish' from what I wrote. That part of what I wrote was in response to other discussions previous to my post where such behavior was described.

I am sorry that you felt that I was insulting you personally; that was certainly not my intent. I was voicing my concern based on actual events that have occurred; some referenced by others in this thread and others I have witnessed repeatedly in my own experience with live face to face humans, as well as events witnessed &/or described to me by interactions my family have had. My husband works with self-proclaimed anti-vaxxers who DO belligerently state those views and argue at every apparent opportunity that they are being discriminated against and actually harmed by others regarding their beliefs that their POV is averse to others in this regard (as related to the CoVid virus, but also whether any vaccines are safe or should even be required.) We have neighbors with these views who are quite vocal about their anti-vaccine stance and how strongly they feel that they are defending their rights by protesting and even thwarting vaccination efforts when they have the opportunity. We have actually heard many folks say out loud that they should not have to do anything to protect another person's health regards CoVid, be it wear a mask, social distance, avoid sneezing on, or covering a cough toward others, or get to a vaccine as a precaution to prevent loved ones from getting infected. I am not exaggerating about these statements that we do hear people we know proclaim out loud to anyone within earshot. I suspect you have heard a belligerent child argue against whatever perceived wrong and know what belligerence sounds like, so I assure you that when I use the word 'belligerantly' it is because that is the attitude exhibited by the folks we have heard repeatedly making these statements and arguments. For the most part, I do not engage in these face to face conversations, unless they reference my capacity as a (retired) medical professional, in which case I will usually answer a specific question at least once. That is, unless I know for sure (from past experience with said person) that their question is simply bait to prolong or start an argument; in that case, I either change the subject or say it is not a discussion upon which we agree so will not engage because I don't want to strain our (hopefully) otherwise amicable relationship,

The one glaring thing that I would agree that was not well put on my part (in the post you quoted) was in using the words 'health conscious' as a descriptor for one set of folks and not both (those who believe in getting vaccines and those in the anti-vax camp because I do know that the we all consider ourselves to be health conscious, no matter the side of the fence upon which we stand. I apologize to anyone here who does adhere to the anti-vaccination camp, as it was a mistake on my part to imply that anyone is not health conscious.


Referenced sentence that I would change if edit were still possible, because I do believe we are all health conscious:

Now the anti-vaxxers believe they are exercising wisdom, while the science and health conscious tend to believe that wisdom dictates vaccination to prevent wide-spread death and disease.

 

[paradisi]

Here are some thorough answers to questions about the vaccines from a doctor advising our very red state's governor. The dr. is a Republican & Christian, if those are concerns one might have.

These are excerpts from his blog published yesterday.

"I have spoken with dozens of people who are somewhat skeptical and some that are very skeptical. I have listened to their concerns and answered their questions the best that I could. The vast majority of these folks have followed up with me and indicated that they did go ahead and get vaccinated after our discussions.
So, I am going to share some of those questions and my answers below, because it is likely that if they had these questions or concerns, there are others with the same questions or concerns.

Concern: The vaccines are experimental.
Response: The Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines are not experimental. Vaccine opponents have carefully selected words that are calculated to provoke an emotional and negative response from those they hope to influence. Labelling the vaccines “experimental” is intended to scare people. The clinical trials for these vaccines were conducted last year. At that time, they were experimental. These vaccines are no longer considered experimental by physicians, scientists, the FDA and the courts, where plaintiffs unsuccessfully asserted that the vaccines were experimental.
In the United States alone, about 340 million doses of vaccine have been administered. The Pfizer vaccine is being used by 111 countries. The Moderna vaccine is being administered by 61 countries. The J&J vaccine is being administered in 33 countries. If these vaccines were experimental, these would be the largest clinical trials ever conducted, a reason to trust them even more.
So, if you decide not to be vaccinated, at least do not use the false narrative that the U.S. vaccines are “experimental” as your reason.

2. Concern: We don’t have long-term studies on the safety of vaccines.
Response: Minor vaccine reactions (sore arm, redness at the injection site, fever, aches and rashes) generally occur within hours to a few days, but almost always occur within 12 days of vaccination. Serious vaccine reactions usually manifest themselves within hours to days, and almost always within 35 days of the vaccination. Thus, the FDA required a minimum of two months of safety data prior to issuing Emergency Use Authorization for the vaccines.
Because of the size of the trials, the studies were designed to identify adverse effects of the vaccines that occur at the rate of at least 1 in 30,000 or 1 in 40,000 people vaccinated. However, the FDA has continued to monitor the safety of vaccines following the grant of Emergency Use Authorization, such that now we are identifying adverse effects that occur at a rate of 1 in a million or 1 in 10 million vaccinees.
Keep in mind, that we have administered about ten times more COVID vaccines than the number of all other vaccines that we administer in an average year in the U.S. Thus, we don’t need longer term data to identify adverse effects in adults and any adverse effects that we do identify as we have additional time to vaccinate more people will be events that occur at extraordinarily rare levels. Keep in mind, while there have been rare serious adverse events reported with the COVID vaccines, these have largely been events that occur at much higher frequency in those who become ill with COVID.
As we are seeing a surge in new cases across the country due to delta, if you choose not to be vaccinated, at least do not be misled by claims that we need more data or longer-term studies to assess the safety of these vaccines. We have all the data that we need to make a safety assessment of these vaccines, and in every case, the FDA, the CDC, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, and public health and infectious disease experts have concluded that the benefits outweigh the risks.

3. Fear: I don’t want to get the vaccine because I am scared of the side effects.
Response: I can certainly understand this. Most people, like my wife, have very mild side effects. Some, like me, have 1 – 3 days of feeling ill or like they have the flu. Obviously, no one wants to go through these side effects, but again, one should compare the potential side effects to the potential illness with COVID. While many people with COVID have mild symptoms, there are others who experience extreme distress and require hospitalization and some will require a ventilator to breathe for them.

4. Confusion: I am young and healthy, so I don’t need to be worried about getting COVID.
Response: I can certainly understand this sentiment. The fact that you are young and healthy does mean that you are very unlikely to die from COVID. On the other hand, there are many bad things that can happen to you even if you survive. The adverse effects that many fear with the vaccines occur far more often in people who are ill with COVID. With the alpha and now the delta variants, hospitals across the country and world have reported having younger people hospitalized, as well as in the ICU, including young adults in their twenties, thirties and forties. We also see up to a third of young people developing long-COVID following infection, even when that infection was mild. These are often young adults who were active and fit, who are experiencing severe limitations to their activity and exercise tolerance months following the infection.
So, even if you remain unconvinced that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks of COVID, please get vaccinated to lessen the possibility that you will infect someone you know and care about who might be at much higher risk for a severe outcome if they get infected.

5. Confusion: I had COVID, so I don’t need the vaccine.
Response: While having COVID does provide some degree of immune protection against re-infection for most, but certainly not all, persons, there is growing evidence that the degree of immune protection is inferior to that provided by vaccines. As we see more and more variants of concern, we have less and less confidence that natural infection will provide people the same degree of immune protection that the vaccine will. Therefore, we recommend that everyone who has previously had COVID get vaccinated once they recover from their illness.

6. Confusion: I can wait and then if I get sick, I can get vaccinated.
Response: This is incorrect. First of all, we do not vaccinate people against COVID who are sick from any infection. Secondly, if you are sick with COVID, it is too late for the vaccine to prevent you from becoming severely ill. The vaccine takes at least a week to produce the kind of immune response that we are looking for. While with previous variants and strains of the virus, even a single dose of vaccine would produce a significant amount of protection, with delta, we are finding that a single dose provides very little protection. Because both doses are required to achieve a robust immune response, we are generally looking at a period of 4 – 6 weeks from the first dose of the series until someone will be maximally protected against the delta variant.

So, if I am persuading you to get vaccinated, please do so ASAP and be sure to go back for your second dose as soon as it is time for it.
If one of the things holding you back from getting vaccinated is the thought that you have time and can get it once you get sick, please know that it is likely it will be too late by then. Please get protected now.

7. Concern: Some are concerned that vaccine “breakthroughs” mean that the vaccines don’t work.
Response: Vaccine breakthroughs are expected. We have known since the clinical trials that the vaccines would not be 100% effective, even though they are not far from it. The key is whether the vaccines can prevent severe illness, hospitalization and death. So, look at the deaths in the US from COVID and May and June. More than 99% of them occurred in the unvaccinated. It you look at the fully vaccinated rate in the U.S. of around 50%, you would expect the deaths to be about 50% in vaccinated persons and 50% in unvaccinated persons if the vaccine was not effective. The fact that deaths from COVID among the vaccinated are less than 1% confirms that these vaccines are highly protective, even if some persons get breakthrough infections.

I hope that if I have addressed your concern, you will get your first dose of vaccine this week. If you still have a concern, an unanswered question or a fear that I have not addressed, write a comment and tell me what that concern or question is and I will do my best to get you an answer. [[On his blog]]
I care about you. I do not want you to get infected or to inadvertently infect someone else. I want life to get back to normal, but we can’t get there if we allow this virus to continue to spread unabated, continuing to develop new and more threatening variants."

 

[lenarenee]

^^^^^. Sounds like this person should be hired as vaccine spokesman for the nation.

 

[szaza]

@paradisi could you provide a link to the blog you quoted?

I'm not really participating in this discussion, because I get easily frustrated with the subject, but I feel like I want to share my experience.
I got assigned the AstraZeneca vaccine. The reports of people (mainly young women, which I think I still belong to) having serious side effects came in the news literally hours after my first injection. So for my second jab I made a risk assessment whether or not to go back and get it. It turned out that my risk of dying from covid within 3 months (considering my age group) was twice as high as my risk of dying from the AZ vaccine. Not to mention the risk of long term problems which is a lot higher in covid.
Fear is normal in these weird times, but it's not a good guide.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Here are some thorough answers to questions about the vaccines from a doctor advising our very red state's governor.
".... I hope that if I have addressed your concern, you will get your first dose of vaccine this week. If you still have a concern, an unanswered question or a fear that I have not addressed, write a comment and tell me what that concern or question is and I will do my best to get you an answer. "[[On his blog]]

@paradisi , thanks for this. Can you give us the web address for his/her blog?

 

[rdc1978]

@paradisi could you provide a link to the blog you quoted?

I'm not really participating in this discussion, because I get easily frustrated with the subject, but I feel like I want to share my experience.
I got assigned the AstraZeneca vaccine. The reports of people (mainly young women, which I think I still belong to) having serious side effects came in the news literally hours after my first injection. So for my second jab I made a risk assessment whether or not to go back and get it. It turned out that my risk of dying from covid within 3 months (considering my age group) was twice as high as my risk of dying from the AZ vaccine. Not to mention the risk of long term problems which is a lot higher in covid.
Fear is normal in these weird times, but it's not a good guide.

It is hard.

My aunt is in her late 70s and has multiple comorbities.

She lives in abject fear of the coronavirus. She takes multiple precautions, masks, she doesn't go out very often, she NEVER let's anyone in her house and she stays wiping down her groceries with lysol wipes.

She is essentially a prisoner in her home and she cannot go to family gatherings (if they happen again).

But she steadfastly refuses the vaccine.

She shuts down if you even try to bring it up.

I had a discussion with her about it early on and I think I didn't understand the level of misinformation floating around. And written in such a way that it's easy to understand and seems to "make sense"

Now she feels like everyone is pointing and laughing at her, blaming her or calling her stupid and its making her dig her heels in even more.

I haven't talked to her about it since, but I do worry for her.

Just at my wits end.

 

[melinda48]

I hear you loud and clear! Self care of one's mental health is definitely important. NZ is definitely self contained; however if we had done more testing and isolation at the beginning, the case loads would have been much lower. Once we understood that wearing masks helped protect others, more should have done it, than get all up in arms about their "rights." When someone who can, doesn't get the vaccine, they are not risking only their health, but the health of those who can't get it because of certain health conditions. Additionally, until world herd immunity is reached one day sooner or later there will be a variant that the vaccine can't stop. Yes they will need to tweak the vaccine, but how many will get sick and possibly die, when the variant could have been prevented; then even those of us who have been vaccinated are at risk. In my opinion, our individualistic American spirit gets in the way at times and needs to be balanced with what's good for the greater community.

I know I am getting all preachy here and perhaps because I live in a southern rural community, these attitudes are more prevalent here. Please know that I am not attacking you @melinda48, I am just generally concerned about this situation. If anything, this pandemic has shown us what a global community we truly are and what one does truly has an impact on others.

Sadly, the information given is by our medical experts has been changing almost daily. we were initially told masks did not work (come to find out this was because they were afraid there would not be enough for our medical personnel). Then we were told to wear one mask, then two, then none again. We chose to take the vaccine due to our ages (we are both over 70). Neither my husband or I have any co-morbidities nor do we take any medications, aside from my blood pressure medicine (yes, we are very fortunate and know it). We took it because it makes sense to do so.

The upshot is that people have free choice. Take it or not, I will still care for you. Four of my best friends have not and will not take the vaccine. I will Not judge their decision (two have advanced degrees; one in medicine and one in engineering). I cannot control anyone but me. I can pray for everyone though and that is what I will do. The vast majority of those who die (as with the flu and every other disease) have co-morbidities. If they don’t have enough sense to or choose not to take the vaccine, I cannot make them. None of us can. Life is a gift; cherish it and protect it or not, it is your choice.

 

[TheGecko]

those who believe in getting vaccines and those in the anti-vax camp

And herein lies the problem...that anyone who has chosen to not be vaccinated is 'anti-vax'. I'm not 'anti-vax'...my children were vaccinated. Because I had Chicken Pox I get a Shingles shot. Because I enjoy outdoor activities and because I run around barefoot I get a Tetanus shot. After I was diagnosed with late onset Type II Diabetes I made sure to get an annual Influenza shot. Last year was the first time I didn't one in almost 20 years, but I didn't feel it was necessary under the circumstances (gloves, masks, physical distancing, etc), but I will be getting one this year. So...NOT anti-vaccine.

Without question, life in general would be so much easier if I received the vaccine. For one I could dispense with masks, gloves, hand sanitizer, sanitizing wipes and alcohol spritzer...my purse would be lighter, my glove box would be less full, my desk at work would be less cluttered. For another there is a thousand dollar 'bonus' from work...I could use that money to stock up on larger quantities of FOs or maybe get a couple of slab molds and a loaf cutter or maybe a really nice chair for my home office. Best yet, I wouldn't have to deal with all the "you're either with us or you're against us"...sorry to tell folks, but the world is NOT black and white.

This is from Johns Hopkins...I consider(ed) them, as I believe many people do, to be a leading authority in the medical field:

All three vaccines authorized for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have been thoroughly tested and found to be safe and effective in preventing severe COVID-19. They continue to undergo continuous and intense safety monitoring.

Johns Hopkins Medicine is administering all three COVID-19 vaccines: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson. We view all three vaccines as highly effective in preventing serious disease, hospitalization and death from COVID-19 and that their benefits outweigh their risks.

First of all, they have not been "thoroughly tested", it is simply NOT possible in given timeline. Average time for vaccine development is 10 - 12 years with 86%-90% failure rate. Add in rapid development and urgency of producing a vaccine and you increase the risks and failure rate of delivering a safe, effective vaccine. You have R&D, Pre-Clinical Trials (animal), then there are Phase 1, 2 and 3 Trials (human), then it's off to the FDA and if approved, Phase 4 (sick people, follow up). Even with a SARS vaccine that had been development since 2009, over 300 companies involved, the best of the best working, billions of dollars, the WHO estimated in February 2020 that it would take a minimum of 18 months. In June 2020, China approved the CanSino vaccine, in August 2020, Russia approved the Sputnik V vaccine (it never went far), in September 2020 the UAE approved the Sinopharm's vaccine for healthcare workers with further use in November, in December 2020 the US approved the Moderna vaccine, the UK approved Oxford/AstraSenecca. When all these, and other vaccines were approved, the majority weren't even in Phase 3...the efficacy and effective rates being touted were based on computer models. So in a nutshell, everyone in the world who has received a Covid-19 vaccine, are in fact, part of the Phase 3 Trials, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Then there is the two statements highlighted in red...suggest folks read it a second and third time, I know that I did. When the vaccine was first released, it was supposed to keep folks from getting Covid and when folks started showing up with Covid after being vaccinated, it was suggested that those folks had been exposed to Covid just prior to receiving the vaccine or during the two weeks it takes for the vaccine to become effective. As more vaccinated folks started showing up with Covid, they came up with "breakthrough infections" and how it was caused by low vaccination rates and variants, but it would prevent "severe" Covid. But now that has changed to just "highly" effective as vaccinated folks are being hospitalized and dying. And blaming the variants on the unvaccinated...that's not how viruses work. If a virus can infect you, it has no reason to mutate, it only mutates when it can't infect you.

My husband and I have had several long conversation about getting vaccinated; we'd both done extensive research, spoke with medical professionals, spoke with close friends and family to get different opinions, weighed the pros and cons. My husband is sick...it's been over a decade since he went through radiation therapy that left him disabled and worsening a little more every year. Even though he is in remission for the cancer, there is no cure or treatment for the damaged caused...the best that can be done is to try and management the worst and it's not much. So we decided he would get vaccinated first...of course he had to wait for all the "beautiful" people to get vaccinated first before he was eligible, but he finally 'qualified'. He's still alive, so there is that. As to whether it actually 'works'...can't say. He not running around exposing himself, partly because he can't run (sorry, gotta have humor), but mostly because if it doesn't work (it's still an experimental vaccine), he doesn't want to put myself, my daughter (she's had Covid, but there is no guarantee that she is immune) or others at risk. We'll see what next year brings...in the meantime, we will continue to be cautious around everyone.

 

[TheGecko]

The Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines are not experimental.

Yes they are. Vaccine proponents have used carefully selected words that are calculated to provoke an emotional and positive response from those they hope to influence (see how easy it was to turn that statement around). The simple fact that the vaccines had to be authorized for emergency use means that they were still experimental, elsewise they would have had full approval. Which by the way, they still have not received (but are pushing for). And let's not forget shame, fear, bribery and coercion that has been used to entice or force people to force people to get vaccinated.

We don’t have long-term studies on the safety of vaccines.

Actually we do, but the concern ISN'T isn't about vaccines in general, it's about the Covid-19 vaccine. So the real concern is: We don't have long-term studies on the safety of the Covid-19 vaccine and the Response should be: This is true. The FDA only required a minimum of two months of safety data prior to issuing an EUA so we know at least that it's not going to kill you outright.

Fear: I don’t want to get the vaccine because I am scared of the side effects.

This is BS...being worried, having concerns...it's not the same. This is a 'shame' statement.

I can wait and then if I get sick, I can get vaccinated.

The response is stupid. It should explain what a vaccine in...that it is prevention, NOT treatment. It also creates confusion with "we are finding that a single dose provides very little protection. Because both doses are required to achieve a robust immune response" statements. The J&J vaccine is one-shot only vaccine, so aren't folks "fully vaccinated"? What happens if someone were to get two J&J vaccines because of this misinformation? Or if someone got confused and mixed up the other two vaccines? I looked, not a whole lot of information...some conflicting "preliminary results" back in May, but nothing sense then. While one could say that 'no news is good news', it was the lack of news coming from China that had me stocking (not hoarding) my pantry and freezer a month before SHTF.

Some are concerned that vaccine “breakthroughs” mean that the vaccines don’t work.

This is where "carefully selected words that are calculated an emotional and positive response from those they hope to influence" are apropos. Why can't people just speak simply. No, no vaccine is 100% effective. As an example, 15%-20% of folks who get vaccinated against Chickenpox will get Chickenpox, but they probably won't get as sick. And we are hoping that it will be the same with the Covid-19 vaccines. Preliminary results are that the majority of the folks being hospitalized are those that are unvaccinated, but we really don't know for sure...they could be part of the folks are who being hospitalized even with the vaccine. Only time will tell.

When Covid-19 first came out, based on available information and was not being said (equally as important), we figured we were looking at two years. It's why my pantry and freezer are still fully stocked, why our gas tanks don't go below half, why we keep a little more cash on hand than usual. And it's why we still wear masks and physical distance because we know that viruses mutate...it's what they do. It's why the Influenza (flu) vaccine gets retooled every year based on best-guess of what is out there...sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't.

 

[paradisi]

Here's the link. He does answer q's on his blog and on twitter. He's been advising schools as well as the governor.

https://drpatesblog.com/2021/07/25/...rtain-about-whether-to-get-the-covid-vaccine/

 

[TheGecko]

Fear is normal in these weird times, but it's not a good guide.

I agree, which is why both sides need to be completely honest instead of playing games.

Now she feels like everyone is pointing and laughing at her, blaming her or calling her stupid and its making her dig her heels in even more.

They probably are. I was subjected to ridicule by one of my co-workers over my decision to not get the vaccine at this time, boss shut him down real quick. I've lost a few friends because I choose to wear a mask, to wear gloves, to physically distance myself. I ended up in a serious disagreement with my older sister after spending an unmasked, physical close day when she casually mentioned that she was crafting with a bunch of friends in defiance of state orders. What she did with her own life was her business, but her not telling me of her potential exposure, took away my right to make an informed decision. My other sister is one of those who have dug in her heels for her own reasons, but that is her own business and I am respectful of that.

Sadly, the information given is by our medical experts has been changing almost daily. we were initially told masks did not work (come to find out this was because they were afraid there would not be enough for our medical personnel). Then we were told to wear one mask, then two, then none again.

And it continues and it's the reason why I have chosen to wait. And I accept responsibility for that decision...which is why I still wear a mask, why I still physical distance.

 

[GemstonePony]

I agree, which is why both sides need to be completely honest instead of playing games.



They probably are. I was subjected to ridicule by one of my co-workers over my decision to not get the vaccine at this time, boss shut him down real quick. I've lost a few friends because I choose to wear a mask, to wear gloves, to physically distance myself. I ended up in a serious disagreement with my older sister after spending an unmasked, physical close day when she casually mentioned that she was crafting with a bunch of friends in defiance of state orders. What she did with her own life was her business, but her not telling me of her potential exposure, took away my right to make an informed decision. My other sister is one of those who have dug in her heels for her own reasons, but that is her own business and I am respectful of that.



And it continues and it's the reason why I have chosen to wait. And I accept responsibility for that decision...which is why I still wear a mask, why I still physical distance.

Thank you for being considerate while not getting vaccinated.
I know a quite a number of individuals who either believe the virus is a hoax or trust in alternative science to prevent it instead of the recommended precautions, or just say masking, distancing, and personal hygiene recommendations infringe on their inalienable rights. And unfortunately, they are quite vocal, so while I'm sure many people are continuing to take precautions while not being vaccinated, they are, at least from my point of view, the vocal minority.
Thank you for sharing your perspective.

 

[earlene]

And herein lies the problem...that anyone who has chosen to not be vaccinated is 'anti-vax'. I'm not 'anti-vax'...my children were vaccinated. Because I had Chicken Pox I get a Shingles shot. Because I enjoy outdoor activities and because I run around barefoot I get a Tetanus shot. After I was diagnosed with late onset Type II Diabetes I made sure to get an annual Influenza shot. Last year was the first time I didn't one in almost 20 years, but I didn't feel it was necessary under the circumstances (gloves, masks, physical distancing, etc), but I will be getting one this year. So...NOT anti-vaccine.

Without question, life in general would be so much easier if I received the vaccine. For one I could dispense with masks, gloves, hand sanitizer, sanitizing wipes and alcohol spritzer...my purse would be lighter, my glove box would be less full, my desk at work would be less cluttered. For another there is a thousand dollar 'bonus' from work...I could use that money to stock up on larger quantities of FOs or maybe get a couple of slab molds and a loaf cutter or maybe a really nice chair for my home office. Best yet, I wouldn't have to deal with all the "you're either with us or you're against us"...sorry to tell folks, but the world is NOT black and white.

This is from Johns Hopkins...I consider(ed) them, as I believe many people do, to be a leading authority in the medical field:

All three vaccines authorized for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have been thoroughly tested and found to be safe and effective in preventing severe COVID-19. They continue to undergo continuous and intense safety monitoring.

Johns Hopkins Medicine is administering all three COVID-19 vaccines: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson. We view all three vaccines as highly effective in preventing serious disease, hospitalization and death from COVID-19 and that their benefits outweigh their risks.

First of all, they have not been "thoroughly tested", it is simply NOT possible in given timeline. Average time for vaccine development is 10 - 12 years with 86%-90% failure rate. Add in rapid development and urgency of producing a vaccine and you increase the risks and failure rate of delivering a safe, effective vaccine. You have R&D, Pre-Clinical Trials (animal), then there are Phase 1, 2 and 3 Trials (human), then it's off to the FDA and if approved, Phase 4 (sick people, follow up). Even with a SARS vaccine that had been development since 2009, over 300 companies involved, the best of the best working, billions of dollars, the WHO estimated in February 2020 that it would take a minimum of 18 months. In June 2020, China approved the CanSino vaccine, in August 2020, Russia approved the Sputnik V vaccine (it never went far), in September 2020 the UAE approved the Sinopharm's vaccine for healthcare workers with further use in November, in December 2020 the US approved the Moderna vaccine, the UK approved Oxford/AstraSenecca. When all these, and other vaccines were approved, the majority weren't even in Phase 3...the efficacy and effective rates being touted were based on computer models. So in a nutshell, everyone in the world who has received a Covid-19 vaccine, are in fact, part of the Phase 3 Trials, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Then there is the two statements highlighted in red...suggest folks read it a second and third time, I know that I did. When the vaccine was first released, it was supposed to keep folks from getting Covid and when folks started showing up with Covid after being vaccinated, it was suggested that those folks had been exposed to Covid just prior to receiving the vaccine or during the two weeks it takes for the vaccine to become effective. As more vaccinated folks started showing up with Covid, they came up with "breakthrough infections" and how it was caused by low vaccination rates and variants, but it would prevent "severe" Covid. But now that has changed to just "highly" effective as vaccinated folks are being hospitalized and dying. And blaming the variants on the unvaccinated...that's not how viruses work. If a virus can infect you, it has no reason to mutate, it only mutates when it can't infect you.

My husband and I have had several long conversation about getting vaccinated; we'd both done extensive research, spoke with medical professionals, spoke with close friends and family to get different opinions, weighed the pros and cons. My husband is sick...it's been over a decade since he went through radiation therapy that left him disabled and worsening a little more every year. Even though he is in remission for the cancer, there is no cure or treatment for the damaged caused...the best that can be done is to try and management the worst and it's not much. So we decided he would get vaccinated first...of course he had to wait for all the "beautiful" people to get vaccinated first before he was eligible, but he finally 'qualified'. He's still alive, so there is that. As to whether it actually 'works'...can't say. He not running around exposing himself, partly because he can't run (sorry, gotta have humor), but mostly because if it doesn't work (it's still an experimental vaccine), he doesn't want to put myself, my daughter (she's had Covid, but there is no guarantee that she is immune) or others at risk. We'll see what next year brings...in the meantime, we will continue to be cautious around everyone.

Again, you are taking out of context. I do not believe that everyone who chooses not to take the vaccine is an anti-vaxxer. That quote is out of context from my original post.

There are many people who don't take the vaccine for various reasons; some are waiting for more data to proove it is safe; some are so healthy that they feel they are 'stealing' opportunities from those who need it more; some have medical issues that worry them or their doctors advise that the vaccine would complicate their already precarious medical condition; the list goes on. That is not being an anti-vaxxer and I never said it does.

If you choose to mis-read what I write, fine. But that is NOT what I said.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Sadly, the information given is by our medical experts has been changing almost daily. we were initially told masks did not work (come to find out this was because they were afraid there would not be enough for our medical personnel). Then we were told to wear one mask, then two, then none again. We chose to take the vaccine due to our ages (we are both over 70). Neither my husband or I have any co-morbidities nor do we take any medications, aside from my blood pressure medicine (yes, we are very fortunate and know it). We took it because it makes sense to do so.

Yes, the information changed as we learned more about the disease. Sadly, in my area many refused to wear masks even when it was mandated. Many don't believe that the vaccine is safe, yet don't wear masks in public and brag about it. Even though I am fully vaccinated, I still wear a mask inside public places and will only eat outside at a restaurant. I know it's going to do little to protect me (i.e. the mask protects the other person), but it's as much a statement as anything. This pandemic is not over. There is no vaccine for children under 12 yet. We don't have worldwide herd immunity yet and I believe we all need to continue to be careful until we do.
I pray for us all. I am usually a very positive person and I know I sound like doomsday Sally (my apologies to anyone named Sally), but my gut says that this is not over yet and we need to continue to be vigilant.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

If a virus can infect you, it has no reason to mutate, it only mutates when it can't infect you.

I appreciate your perspective, but this point bothers me. Viruses are likely to mutate all the time, some make no impact, others make the virus more dangerous. Each time the virus replicates within one's body, it has the potential to mutate. That is why the medical professionals are urging people to be vaccinated. Your immune system will then attack the virus and it will not be able to replicate and therefore not have a chance to mutate.

Below is my reference, but there are others.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-does-it-mean-that-the-coronavirus-is-mutating/"All viruses are made up of a bundle of genetic material (either DNA or RNA) that’s covered by a protective coating of proteins. Once a virus gets into your body – usually through your mouth or nose – it latches onto one of your cells. The virus’s DNA or RNA then enters your cell, where it can make copies of itself that go off and infect other cells. If the virus can copy itself and hijack enough of your cells without being wiped out by your immune system, that’s how you get sick.

Every now and then, an error occurs during the virus’s copying process. That’s a mutation.

Most of the time, mutations are so small that they don’t significantly affect how the virus works, or they make the virus weaker, Dr. Rhoads says. But occasionally, a mutation helps the virus copy itself or get into our cells more easily.

“If these advantageous genetic mistakes are included when the virus replicates, they’re passed on and eventually become part of the virus’s normal genome,” Dr. Rhoads explains. We can see these mutations accumulate over time, and that’s how we get new variants of a virus strain. "

 

[TheGecko]

Thank you for being considerate while not getting vaccinated.

I know a quite a number of individuals who either believe the virus is a hoax or trust in alternative science to prevent it instead of the recommended precautions, or just say masking, distancing, and personal hygiene recommendations infringe on their inalienable rights. And unfortunately, they are quite vocal, so while I'm sure many people are continuing to take precautions while not being vaccinated, they are, at least from my point of view, the vocal minority.

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

With rights come responsibilities...we've forgotten that in this country.

I appreciate your perspective, but this point bothers me. Viruses are likely to mutate all the time, some make no impact, others make the virus more dangerous. Each time the virus replicates within one's body, it has the potential to mutate. That is why the medical professionals are urging people to be vaccinated. Your immune system will then attack the virus and it will not be able to replicate and therefore not have a chance to mutate.

I admit that I simplified it, but it still stands as you have illustrated.

I do not believe that everyone who chooses not to take the vaccine is an anti-vaxxer.

Thank you for clarifying that.

 

[The_Phoenix]

We have reached a point where the only end to this will be global herd immunity. We are not done with this virus and this virus is not done with us. Get vaccinated or don't get vaccinated. Wear your mask or don't wear your mask. I don't really care what people do or don't do.

It is the rudeness, and personalization of the issue, that I find most appalling and distasteful.

 

[AliOop]

We have reached a point where the only end to this will be global herd immunity. We are not done with this virus and this virus is not done with us. Get vaccinated or don't get vaccinated. Wear your mask or don't wear your mask. I don't really care what people do or don't do.

It is the rudeness, and personalization of the issue, that I find most appalling and distasteful.

EXACTLY, THANK YOU!!

 

[Misschief]

Our area is a vacation destination; we've suddenly become a hot spot again, for two reasons. Firstly, now that inter provincial travel is allowed again, we're being inundated with out of province tourists, many of whom haven't been vaccinated. Secondly, young people who haven't been vaccinated are taking the reopening as permission to party and they're getting sick. We've had numerous outbreaks at local nightclubs and restaurants and it's being blamed primarily on unvaccinated partygoers.

Before the reopening, our town had approximately 75% of adults vaccinated with their first dose. Just because you're allowed to travel doesn't mean you should and if you are going to travel, make sure you've been vaccinated so you aren't putting yourself or, more importantly, others at risk.