Coffee in DIY lotion

[Elise]

I'm wondering if anyone here have ever tried using coffee (watery liquid form, not the grains) in DIY lotion or body products ? My only experience with DIY body products is making balms (so no water content) with bee wax. And I want to try making body creams including some type of watery content (hyrosols or plant infusions). I don't know why but adding coffee sounds like something fun. Plus, maybe the caffeine inside would be beneficial to my skin But I couldn't find anyone doing it the internet.
So I'm wondering, do you think of any reason not do to it ?
Also, since they don't have any water in, I only use vitamin E in my balms and I don't know much about preservatives. But I know I would have to use one in this experiment. But I feel like maybe some of them would not match well with coffee which is slightly acidic. Do you have any recommendation on what I should use ?
I wish to use bee wax, since I already have that, so I know I can't incorporate too much coffee in. I'll probably try something between 20 and 30%.
Thanks by advance for anything helpful you'll say about this project

 

[natik]

I'm wondering if anyone here have ever tried using coffee (watery liquid form, not the grains) in DIY lotion or body products ? My only experience with DIY body products is making balms (so no water content) with bee wax. And I want to try making body creams including some type of watery content (hyrosols or plant infusions). I don't know why but adding coffee sounds like something fun. Plus, maybe the caffeine inside would be beneficial to my skin But I couldn't find anyone doing it the internet.
So I'm wondering, do you think of any reason not do to it ?
Also, since they don't have any water in, I only use vitamin E in my balms and I don't know much about preservatives. But I know I would have to use one in this experiment. But I feel like maybe some of them would not match well with coffee which is slightly acidic. Do you have any recommendation on what I should use ?
I wish to use bee wax, since I already have that, so I know I can't incorporate too much coffee in. I'll probably try something between 20 and 30%.
Thanks by advance for anything helpful you'll say about this project

Will coffee mix with bee wax? Or are you going to use some type of additives to dissolve it?
I want to know too, would be nice to get some caffeine topically since intravenously it is not an option, and orally is never enough

 

[Elise]

Will coffee mix with bee wax? Or are you going to use some type of additives to dissolve it?
I want to know too, would be nice to get some caffeine topically since intravenously it is not an option, and orally is never enough

Haha
I'm thinking : brewing a normal cup of coffee and trying to emulsify it with bee wax and an oil of choice (unchosen yet, probably almond oil since I love it on my skin). + some sort of preservative (also unchosen)

 

[natik]

Did a quick google search. Looks like to emulsify beeswax with water - you will need to mix water with borax first, and then heat it with beeswax. Not something I would want to put on my skin. Back to drinking coffee and smothering myself with oils

 

[Elise]

I had to do an english google research to find out about that borax thing ! In french google I found a lot of recipes using just beeswax, oil and some sort of watery content. But yeah, I read everywhere that beeswax isn't a very good emulsifier and you have to use less water than oil in your recipe.
I guess I'll just try with a very small quantity and find out myself.

 

[DeeAnna]

People pretend that beeswax alone is an "emulsifier". It's not an emulsion and your water-based ingredients will separate from the waxes and fats.

If you are determined to use beeswax as an emulsifier, then you also must use borax. It's an unstable emulsion that's difficult to do well, but it's a true emulsion.

You also must use a broad spectrum preservative when making emulsions to control microbial growth.

It's not wise to make emulsions using coffee, hydrosol, milk, aloe, etc. as the water-based liquid. Those liquids add protein and/or carbohydrate to the emulsion. Carbs, fats, and proteins creates a complete diet, so microbes can grow even faster than if water only is used to make the emulsion.

 

[Elise]

Thanks @DeeAnna for stopping by ! I enjoy reading your posts all around the forum.
Since Natik mentioned the borax thing I've been reading about emulsifiers and why beeswax is not one. Quite interesting. I wonder how an acquaintance of mine managed to do body creams using only beesxax, oil and hydrosol. Maybe she used very very little hydrosol. Or maybe I don't remember well. I lost contact with that person.
I consider using beeswax AND an other emulsifier now.
Do you mean it's not wise to use coffee in an emulsion even with a broad spectrum preservative?
Also, what would qualify as "broad spectrum" ? Is there anything I should pay attention to when making my choice ?

 

[cmzaha]

Unless you send it out to a lab for challenge testing I absolutely would not advise adding anything that can be bug food in emulsified lotions. You would be surprised what will fail in lotions. I spent a couple of years just testing different combinations of preservatives, additives, and even oils and it was pretty enlightening what would and would not work. I cannot remember what the popular ingredient was at one time that I wanted to make work but no matter what preservative combination I used it was always an epic failure. Without a full testing lab which most of us do not have it is better to stick to simple lotions. I still believe in a dual preservative system myself, but my lotions were challenge-tested. I had my routine for testing before spending the money on lab testing.

I will also add with what I now know about Sepsis I will not make my daughter lotions or let her use any handmade lotions as much as she likes them and she is the one that originally started making our lotions.

EDTA: I just looked up the trouble ingredient I tried infusing in oil and used lotions. It was Arnica. No matter how I tried using it in lotions it always tuned out to be an epic fail. I had to save it for Anhydrous products.

 

[nadsnads]

Why not stick with making anhydrous balms? You could infuse some coffee grounds into a nice oil for a few days, melt in some beeswax, and call it a day.

If you are really after the caffeine, then yes you'd have to make a lotion with water in it, because caffeine is water soluble. But you can't make a lotion with an infusion of coffee for the same reason you can't make a lotion with a tea. There's just no way for you to filter out all the organic particles even with the finest filter. That's why we use hydrosols instead of simply making a herbal tea. As soon as you introduce "bug food" into your lotion, no amount of preservative will save you. I'd strongly recommend buying a proper coffee extract.

 

[Janine Hoffart]

People pretend that beeswax alone is an "emulsifier". It's not an emulsion and your water-based ingredients will separate from the waxes and fats.

If you are determined to use beeswax as an emulsifier, then you also must use borax. It's an unstable emulsion that's difficult to do well, but it's a true emulsion.

You also must use a broad spectrum preservative when making emulsions to control microbial growth.

It's not wise to make emulsions using coffee, hydrosol, milk, aloe, etc. as the water-based liquid. Those liquids add protein and/or carbohydrate to the emulsion. Carbs, fats, and proteins creates a complete diet, so microbes can grow even faster than if water only is used to make the emulsion.

This is interesting, more the part about not using milk in lotions. I see so many people using goats milk in their lotions. I'm confused about the "coffee, Hydrosol & aloe" tho. I have seen people use Hydrosol and people who use aloe and rave about it. I was hoping to make a lotion with Hydrosol as I recently purchased some and it's so nice. I have been making a magnesium lotion using magnesium brine and have not used a preservative in it, only emulsifying wax, stearic acid and vitamin E oil. So far so good but I have ordered a preservative as I don't want to push my luck.

 

[Misschief]

This is interesting, more the part about not using milk in lotions. I see so many people using goats milk in their lotions. I'm confused about the "coffee, Hydrosol & aloe" tho. I have seen people use Hydrosol and people who use aloe and rave about it. I was hoping to make a lotion with Hydrosol as I recently purchased some and it's so nice. I have been making a magnesium lotion using magnesium brine and have not used a preservative in it, only emulsifying wax, stearic acid and vitamin E oil. So far so good but I have ordered a preservative as I don't want to push my luck.

I, and several others that I know about, make Goat Milk soap but we use Goat Milk hydrosylate, which is basically a goat milk extract. Actual milk in lotions is, as far as I'm concerned, a recipe for disaster.

If you are really after the caffeine, then yes you'd have to make a lotion with water in it, because caffeine is water soluble. But you can't make a lotion with an infusion of coffee for the same reason you can't make a lotion with a tea. There's just no way for you to filter out all the organic particles even with the finest filter. That's why we use hydrosols instead of simply making a herbal tea. As soon as you introduce "bug food" into your lotion, no amount of preservative will save you. I'd strongly recommend buying a proper coffee extract.

If you're really after the caffeine in a lotion, you can purchase caffeine extract, which is meant for cosmetic use. I use it in several of my lotions and serums.

 

[DeeAnna]

Just because various people make lotion with brewed coffee, milk, hydrosol, aloe, etc, etc. doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do. The ones who do this are ignorant of the risks they're taking or they know the risks but think they're immune.

There's a lot of wishful thinking on the internet about what makes a good, safe lotion, but there's good information out there too. I made a point to seek out and learn how to ensure a lotion remains sanitary and stable.

I see this in home canning too -- the "rebel canners" who are taking crazy risks when preserving their food. Just because they're ignoring basic food safety doesn't mean I'm going to ignore safe, proven practices to ensure my food is as safe as possible.

 

[cmzaha]

Just because various people make lotion with brewed coffee, milk, hydrosol, aloe, etc, etc. doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do. The ones who do this are ignorant of the risks they're taking or they know the risks but think they're immune.

There's a lot of wishful thinking on the internet about what makes a good, safe lotion, but there's good information out there too. I made a point to seek out and learn how to ensure a lotion remains sanitary and stable.

I see this in home canning too -- the "rebel canners" who are taking crazy risks when preserving their food. Just because they're ignoring basic food safety doesn't mean I'm going to ignore safe, proven practices to ensure my food is as safe as possible.

I agree, I am as paranoid with canning as with making lotions. As a long-time canner, it may be why I was and am so careful with lotions. I spent several years canning fresh albacore and you just have to do it right, lol I never would accept anyone else's canned albie or tuna only mine. I swear by All-American Pressure Canners! When and if I ever get this move done I hope to start canning again.

 

[justjacqui]

Often the commercial "goats milk" lotions will use a tiny percentage of goats milk in the lotion for marketing purposes and even then they will need a good preservative to keep it preserved.

Not only are the other ingredients (like Aloe and hydrosols) considered to be "bug food" for bacteria and mold, they can also cause your emulsion to separate. Aloe has lots of electrolytes and can cause issues with some emulsifiers and polymeric thickeners .

 

[DeeAnna]

I remember browsing through the beauty aisle in my local "whole foods" store a few years ago. I was curious about a hand cream from a small company. It was being sold in small wide-mouth jars. I'd been making my own lotions for awhile and wanted to "scope the enemy" so to speak. So I opened the tester jar and took a good sniff and look.

To remove product, you had to dip your fingers in the jar to scoop out a dollop. That kind of packaging might sound reasonable, until you realize that's a great way to introduce "bugs" into an otherwise sanitary product. The cream should have been in a squeeze tube. Or if it could be pumped, maybe in a bottle with a pump top. Anything to keep fingers from contaminating the product.

Once I got past the packaging problem, I noticed droplets of clear liquid weeping out of the cream that was left in the jar. That separation told me there was a serious problem with the emulsifier and thickener system. Then I looked at the ingredients list. Only beeswax was listed. A cream thickened with only beeswax might look fine for a time, but the mixture is unstable, since there there is no chemical emulsifier to keep the mixture from eventually separating. That explained the weeping.

And there were zero preservatives on the list. I thought about had how many strange fingers had been dipping into the cream, inoculating it with who knows what kind of creepin' crud. And no backup system (aka preservative) to help keep the cream sanitary.

It's one thing to make products for your own personal use that don't follow the rules for stability or safety. If that's what you want, that's your choice. But someone who is giving or selling products needs to meet a higher standard. Or make products that don't require good emulsification and effective preservation.

 

[lsg]

Why not just use caffeine powder instead? Caffeine Powder - The Formulator Shop

 

[user 18645]

In liquid soap, an appropriate preservative is used due to the water content. Why wouldn't this work the same for a lotion? I see folks using hydrosols and adding various proteins regularly.

 

[DeeAnna]

....I see folks using hydrosols and adding various proteins regularly....

Just because "everybody does it" doesn't mean it's a wise thing to do. A lot of makers are alarmingly clueless about what it takes to to keep products safe and sanitary in the long run. I'm not willing to blindly follow the example of people who really don't understand what they're doing.

People make this mistake even for liquid soap. Yes, you can add a chemical preservative to liquid soap. And, yes, liquid soap is also alkaline which also helps to inhibit microbial growth. But even liquid soap should not be diluted with anything but plain water, preferably distilled water.

Hydrosols, aloe, milk, teas, infusions, etc. add carbohydrates and proteins. In a lotion that already contains fats and in a soap that contains fatty acids, adding these ingredients ensures a balanced and nutritious diet for bacteria and fungi. You want to starve microbes, not feed them.

A chemical preservative is only part of the preservation system for a lotion. A good preservation system includes these components: Manufacturing the product under sanitary conditions so the product starts with a low microbial population. Using appropriate packaging to ensure the consumer doesn't add contamination to the product. Minimizing sources of food in the product to inhibit the growth of any microorganisms. And using an effective chemical preservative to aid in long term sanitation.

A chemical preservative alone is never going to be enough to keep your product sanitary. That's especially true if you add ingredients that create a balanced diet (protein + carbs + fat + water) for bacteria and yeast to thrive.

 

[user 18645]

Just because "everybody does it" doesn't mean it's a wise thing to do. A lot of makers are alarmingly clueless about what it takes to to keep products safe and sanitary in the long run. I'm not willing to blindly follow the example of people who really don't understand what they're doing.

People make this mistake even for liquid soap. Yes, you can add a chemical preservative to liquid soap. And, yes, liquid soap is also alkaline which also helps to inhibit microbial growth. But even liquid soap should not be diluted with anything but plain water, preferably distilled water.

Hydrosols, aloe, milk, teas, infusions, etc. add carbohydrates and proteins. In a lotion that already contains fats and in a soap that contains fatty acids, adding these ingredients ensures a balanced and nutritious diet for bacteria and fungi. You want to starve microbes, not feed them.

A chemical preservative is only part of the preservation system for a lotion. A good preservation system includes these components: Manufacturing the product under sanitary conditions so the product starts with a low microbial population. Using appropriate packaging to ensure the consumer doesn't add contamination to the product. Minimizing sources of food in the product to inhibit the growth of any microorganisms. And using an effective chemical preservative to aid in long term sanitation.

A chemical preservative alone is never going to be enough to keep your product sanitary. That's especially true if you add ingredients that create a balanced diet (protein + carbs + fat + water) for bacteria and yeast to thrive.

So, what I'm gathering is: You're wrong. Don't do it because because you're wrong and stupid. Your message has been received loud and clear.
Adiós, everybody.

 

[DeeAnna]

So, what I'm gathering is: You're wrong. Don't do it because because you're wrong and stupid. Your message has been received loud and clear.
Adiós, everybody.

If I'd wanted to send that kind of message, I would not have spent about 45 minutes trying to clearly explain what a good preservation system is and why it's not a good idea to count on a chemical preservative alone for keeping a lotion or other product sanitary.

That's not anywhere close to me telling you "you're wrong and stupid". Obviously I've failed to choose the right words to get my real message across. I regret wasting my time and yours.