Coastal Soap is Biodegradable?

[craziedde]

Hi,

Is Coastal Soap biodegradable? ( by coastal soap I mean soap that we make KOH + coconut oil for example )
Also is it environment friendly?
How fast will it decompose?
Also what are the good way to decompose it for garden use? ( reusing your waste water )

What are exact ingredients of coastal soap. Glycerin and ???

Is there even "friendlier" alternatives?

Thanks,

Eduard

 

[lsg]

From the description on their website, it sounds like one type of soap is melt & pour and the other is cp. You can e-mail them for an ingredient list of both soaps they sell.
http://coastalsoapworks.com/Coastal_Soa ... uct_1.html

 

[craziedde]

From the description on their website, it sounds like one type of soap is melt & pour and the other is cp. You can e-mail them for an ingredient list of both soaps they sell.
http://coastalsoapworks.com/Coastal_Soa ... uct_1.html

Sorry my mistake by Coastal soap I meant the soap that we make.
KOH + coconut oil...
I thought that typical name to call it coastal soap??

 

[Seifenblasen]

Many things are biodegradable, even plastic bags. The question is how long it takes. Something like a piece of cabbage will biodegrade in a couple moths, a plastic bag, several hundred years.

And most CP/HP are biodegradable in a reasonable time frame.

When it come to gray water re-use, biodegradability is not the only concern. Some local health departments have rules on the subject, and you also need to consider the pH of water, dissolved salts, the type of plants in your garden (trees vs. landscaping plants vs. food crop) etc. Google "grey" or "gray water reuse" and you will find tons of information.

 

[craziedde]

I'm still confused on what final outcome of soap ingredients are?
Every body seems to know that its good soap. And natural.
But whats in it. chemically speaking? Somebody before mentioned to me that its mostly Glycerin???
Ones you know, then could make an assumption of how well it can decompose. I think

 

[craziedde]

Many things are biodegradable, even plastic bags. The question is how long it takes. Something like a piece of cabbage will biodegrade in a couple moths, a plastic bag, several hundred years.

And most CP/HP are biodegradable in a reasonable time frame.

When it come to gray water re-use, biodegradability is not the only concerns. Some local health departments have rules on the subject, and you also need to consider the pH of water, dissolved salts, the type of plants in your garden (trees vs. landscaping plants vs. food crop) etc. Google "grey" or "gray water reuse" and you will find tons of information.

Will be adding graywater to my dictionary Thanks...
What are CP/HP???

 

[Seifenblasen]

Sorry, CP = cold process soap, HP = hot process soap.

I haven't done any real research into how biodegradable are the ingredients in soap. It contains mostly saponified fats/oils and glycerin. But consider the origin of soap. One of the versions is someone roasted an animal and noticed that the fat dripped down and mixed with wood ashes (the alkali from wood ashes is KOH, while most bar soaps are made with NaOH) seemed to clean well. Intuitively I think such a mixture - fats and alkali - cannot really persist in the environment for too long. Therefore I venture to say that most soaps are biodegradable.

 

[green soap]

We use gray water to water a few of our fruit trees.

After some reading and research we decided not to water crops like lettuces and kales, but fruit trees seem to be OK.

One concern is the alkalinity of soap (high Ph). This grey water is from our laundry, and we add white vinegar to the rinse cycle. The vinegar benefits the laundry process, and also neutralized the alkalinity of the soap solution that gets into the soil.

We have been doing this for about a year now, and all seems fine. This is one of the reasons we make our own laundry soaps (KOH and oils with no scent).

Your mileage might vary, so you might want to experiment in a small scale, to make sure your plants do OK with it. Usually there are always some plants that will do well with grey water, maybe just ornamentals, but it can still reduce the overall water bill.

 

[Lion Of Judah]

interesting subject ...... makes me think that humans are more problem than they are worth . if you are really pressed to find an answer to this question {conundrum} i would suggest contacting the caveman chemist { who is a soap maker as well } for more of a concrete answer on the matter .
his site URL is : http://cavemanchemistry.com/ and his name is Kevin Dunn. // p.s there is a forum board on that page as well that the question may be able to be posted for reply's.

Bless, Lion Of Judah

 

[Seifenblasen]

Whether it is biodegradable, or be able to be put to beneficial use for your plants (not everything you put in your garden has to be biodegradable), if you live in the US, please do check your state/local health or environmental department rules regarding greywater. Greywater usage is legal in California, Arizona and a few other states, but illegal in many. There are also variations in what is defined as greywater and what is "blackwater" (which must not be reused).

And if you live in the US, your local agricultural extension or university co-op also have lots of good information specific to your local climate, soil condition, vegetation, etc. re: greywater usage. For example where I am the soil is very alkaline to start with. Adding more alkaline "stuff" to the soil is not always conducive to growing acid or neutral soil loving plants. Conversely, if you are in an area with very acidic soil, the alkalinity of soapy water could help neutralize the soil.

The amount and concentration of soap in your water also makes a huge difference. I deal with hazardous materials at work and we have a saying: dilution is the solution to pollution.

I do not agree 100% with some of the rules and regulations. But you should at least be knowledgeable about what they are and make an educated decision if you want to break or follow the rules, how to go about it, and the consequences if caught.

 

[craziedde]

We use gray water to water a few of our fruit trees.

After some reading and research we decided not to water crops like lettuces and kales, but fruit trees seem to be OK.

One concern is the alkalinity of soap (high Ph). This grey water is from our laundry, and we add white vinegar to the rinse cycle. The vinegar benefits the laundry process, and also neutralized the alkalinity of the soap solution that gets into the soil.

We have been doing this for about a year now, and all seems fine. This is one of the reasons we make our own laundry soaps (KOH and oils with no scent).

Your mileage might vary, so you might want to experiment in a small scale, to make sure your plants do OK with it. Usually there are always some plants that will do well with grey water, maybe just ornamentals, but it can still reduce the overall water bill.

Interesting observation about fruit trees.
Now you know fruit trees can survive grey water ( not necessarily enjoy it ).
Maybe some light filtering would be possible.
Also interesting your vinegar experiments for PH balancing
I think cheese whey could be used as well ( leftovers after processing cheese and yogurt ), even though its not as acidic but it can help grow some beneficial bacteria... ( its even used as beneficial bacteria starter in bokashi composting )

 

[craziedde]

Whether it is biodegradable, or be able to be put to beneficial use for your plants (not everything you put in your garden has to be biodegradable), if you live in the US, please do check your state/local health or environmental department rules regarding greywater. Greywater usage is legal in California, Arizona and a few other states, but illegal in many. There are also variations in what is defined as greywater and what is "blackwater" (which must not be reused).

Here you go one more word added to my dictionary - "Blackwater". Thanks

And if you live in the US, your local agricultural extension or university co-op also have lots of good information specific to your local climate, soil condition, vegetation, etc. re: greywater usage. For example where I am the soil is very alkaline to start with. Adding more alkaline "stuff" to the soil is not always conducive to growing acid or neutral soil loving plants. Conversely, if you are in an area with very acidic soil, the alkalinity of soapy water could help neutralize the soil.

Good point about different alkalinity of soil based on location and and different needs of plants
But I don't see how plants would enjoy graywater.. As its far from natural state of water. So in the best case scenario it can survive it.
But maybe graywater can be somehow mixed with beneficial bacteria. To convert that fat and glycerin into nitrogen?
Also in case of soil been very alkaline. "Bokashi" compost is very acidic... And I'm very curious if somehow it can be used on graywater treatments.

The amount and concentration of soap in your water also makes a huge difference. I deal with hazardous materials at work and we have a saying: dilution is the solution to pollution.

Well light filtering can help in that regard. But it probably beyond this conversation.

I do not agree 100% with some of the rules and regulations. But you should at least be knowledgeable about what they are and make an educated decision if you want to break or follow the rules, how to go about it, and the consequences if caught.

The "regular" approach is:
Collect all you waste water treat it with harsh chemicals and dump it back into the nature?
Does not sound like good scenario.
But I guess that is also beyond this conversation.

 

[craziedde]

From the description on their website, it sounds like one type of soap is melt & pour and the other is cp. You can e-mail them for an ingredient list of both soaps they sell.
http://coastalsoapworks.com/Coastal_Soa ... uct_1.html

Thanks I will have to do some reading on this website

 

[craziedde]

interesting subject ...... makes me think that humans are more problem than they are worth . if you are really pressed to find an answer to this question {conundrum} i would suggest contacting the caveman chemist { who is a soap maker as well } for more of a concrete answer on the matter .
his site URL is : http://cavemanchemistry.com/ and his name is Kevin Dunn. // p.s there is a forum board on that page as well that the question may be able to be posted for reply's.

Bless, Lion Of Judah

Caveman chemist ) Sounds very catchy
Will have learn a new approach to chemistry.
From his intro on the front page does make perfect sense though

 

[Seifenblasen]

The "regular" approach is:
Collect all you waste water treat it with harsh chemicals and dump it back into the nature?
Does not sound like good scenario.
But I guess that is also beyond this conversation.

I know what you are trying to say, and I agree with you. Yes, there are a lot of crazy regulations and things we do that make absolutely no sense. In Colorado it is even illegal for urban dwellers to collect rainwater from their own roofs. So instead of being able to put rain barrels at the down spouts and use the water for gardening, the legal approach is to let rain water run down the storm drain. (With all the paved area in urban areas, there is very little chance for the rainwater to percolate and re-charge groundwater).

But as you said, it is really off the tangent.

Here are some really good information on greywater and link concerning this topic:

http://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=2640

 

[craziedde]

Here are some really good information on greywater and link concerning this topic:

http://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=2640

Thanks for link.

Totally off topic but those people are managing to compost even the blackwater!
http://shaunsbackyard.com/191/human-waste-composting/
http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index. ... omposting/
Its hardcore and immature, but possible.

 

[Seifenblasen]

Ah, thanks for the links!

I have lived and worked in developing countries, where many people still use human waste for fertilizer (thus the advice of wash and cook everything thoroughly). I still remember having to add a few drops of chlorine or a few granules of potassium permanganate to soak and wash lettuce if I were to have a raw salad. :wink:

Kudos to those people brave enough to embrace waste treatment in their very own backyard. As much as I want to be environmentally responsible, I am going to leave sewage either to the municipal treatment plant or a proper septic system.

Now how did we start with a very clean topic like soap and ended up in the sewer?