Chives in Soap?

[MooMac]

It's no problem at all. There is more than plenty of soap to go around, so it defeats the purpose of not encouraging or providing you with the information you need to be the best that you can be.



Yes, no, maybe. Soap...no; it's simply not on the skin long enough...along with the whole caustic soda and saponification. And while lotions are a leave-on products thus you can get the benefit, you also have to remember that they are also 70%-80% water which means that the benefit has been by 70%-80%...actually more because there are other other ingredients. To take @DeeAnna's example of honey just a step further...we know that honey has anti-oxidant, anti-bacterial and anti-inflammatory properties. It can be put on wounds to promote rapid and improved healing...my Grandma used it all the time. But if I add a bunch of water to it, the only thing it's good for is sweet tea.

And there is a big difference between ingesting something, and putting it on your skin. Our skin is composed of three layers...the Epidermis, Dermis and Subcutaneous Layer. Pretty much everyone we put on our skin never makes it past the Epidermis and that is because the Epidermis is a natural barrier. It's what protects us against germs and other nasties, it's why washing our hands with soap and water is so beneficial. Orange Juice contains a ton of Vitamin C, but even if I fill the tub with it and soak in it for three hours, I will not get any benefit. I need to actually ingest it.

Oh wow, I thought you could absorb some vitamins or nutrients through the skin potentially. I hear that different fats and oils have different penetrative properties, I thought perhaps those that are known to go deeper and incorporate more fully into the skin could bring some benefits along with them. I appreciate your helpfulness, I've been really impressed by the whole community on here in general.

As for preserving some of the beneficial properties of ingredients known to be helpful on the skin, then perhaps a waterless balm may work? I think tallow doesn't spoil quickly when left out at room conditions, maybe mixing it with a stable soft oil and mixing in some dried ingredients might do.

 

[TheGecko]

Oh wow, I thought you could absorb some vitamins or nutrients through the skin potentially. I hear that different fats and oils have different penetrative properties, I thought perhaps those that are known to go deeper and incorporate more fully into the skin could bring some benefits along with them. I appreciate your helpfulness, I've been really impressed by the whole community on here in general.

As for preserving some of the beneficial properties of ingredients known to be helpful on the skin, then perhaps a waterless balm may work? I think tallow doesn't spoil quickly when left out at room conditions, maybe mixing it with a stable soft oil and mixing in some dried ingredients might do.

I am by no means an expert. I used to sell mineral makeup and natural skin care years ago and learned a bit here and there and got to test a lot of products. And I’m looking to develop a few products myself so I am doing a lot of research myself. Diabetes plays havoc on the hands and feet and while there are some fairly decent products that help, I’d rather have something a little more ‘natural’ and less heavy.

I don’t know a lot about tallow per se, but I do know that other animal fats like butter and bacon grease will go rancid. You can ‘can’ both and produce a stable products that will last a year.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Oh wow, I thought you could absorb some vitamins or nutrients through the skin potentially. I hear that different fats and oils have different penetrative properties, I thought perhaps those that are known to go deeper and incorporate more fully into the skin could bring some benefits along with them. I appreciate your helpfulness, I've been really impressed by the whole community on here in general.

As for preserving some of the beneficial properties of ingredients known to be helpful on the skin, then perhaps a waterless balm may work? I think tallow doesn't spoil quickly when left out at room conditions, maybe mixing it with a stable soft oil and mixing in some dried ingredients might do.

I'd not be keen on putting unsaponified tallow on my skin - just sayin' But cocoa butter or shea butter - yes. Have you thought about a lotion bar with your special additives? That could work. Search lotion bar - there's been heaps of talk lately about them. And ask @Zing - he likes a good lotion bar apparently. I'd still be considering using a preservative of some sort though. Not sure if ROE would work in this case - one of the more chemist-ey types on here would know.

 

[The_Phoenix]

I'd not be keen on putting unsaponified tallow on my skin - just sayin' But cocoa butter or shea butter - yes. Have you thought about a lotion bar with your special additives? That could work. Search lotion bar - there's been heaps of talk lately about them. And ask @Zing - he likes a good lotion bar apparently. I'd still be considering using a preservative of some sort though. Not sure if ROE would work in this case - one of the more chemist-ey types on here would know.

I’m sure to many putting tallow on your skin as a leave-on product seems gross, but it is really fantastic. Not at all greasy, absorbs readily, and works well with other lightweight oils in a salve. But yeah, I get the gross factor for some people.

 

[TheGecko]

I’m sure to many putting tallow on your skin as a leave-on product seems gross, but it is really fantastic. Not at all greasy, absorbs readily, and works well with other lightweight oils in a salve. But yeah, I get the gross factor for some people.

Growing poor and in the country, it’s less a gross factor than if the product can be used up before the tallow goes rancid.

 

[earlene]

If you are personally fine with rubbing raw tallow into your skin, it's okay, of course. But make sure that whatever oils you do use, will absorb without residue as quickly as you desire.

Some oils take a lot longer to absorb or leave an undesirable oily residue. When I sit on my couch watching TV, or have to get dressed and go out, I don't want to have to wait a long time for absorption, or to have to wipe residue off my skin in order to get dressed or walk on my carpet (or hardwood floors for that matter.)

 

[MooMac]

I am by no means an expert. I used to sell mineral makeup and natural skin care years ago and learned a bit here and there and got to test a lot of products. And I’m looking to develop a few products myself so I am doing a lot of research myself. Diabetes plays havoc on the hands and feet and while there are some fairly decent products that help, I’d rather have something a little more ‘natural’ and less heavy.

I don’t know a lot about tallow per se, but I do know that other animal fats like butter and bacon grease will go rancid. You can ‘can’ both and produce a stable products that will last a year.

I did not know some skin applications could help diabetes symptoms. Experience is a great foundation, I am hoping to get a lot of experience experimenting and catch up soon!

 

[MooMac]

I'd not be keen on putting unsaponified tallow on my skin - just sayin' But cocoa butter or shea butter - yes. Have you thought about a lotion bar with your special additives? That could work. Search lotion bar - there's been heaps of talk lately about them. And ask @Zing - he likes a good lotion bar apparently. I'd still be considering using a preservative of some sort though. Not sure if ROE would work in this case - one of the more chemist-ey types on here would know.

Yes I made a lotion bar the other day! It only stays hard in the fridge currently, I have to mess with the ratios. I use it and my skin seems to like it. Is ROE natural, would it change a products fda categorization? And I think it refers to rosemary oil extract, is that right?

 

[MooMac]

I’m sure to many putting tallow on your skin as a leave-on product seems gross, but it is really fantastic. Not at all greasy, absorbs readily, and works well with other lightweight oils in a salve. But yeah, I get the gross factor for some people.

Yes tallow is great on the skin I find! I mix tallow and macadamia oil into a balm / salve, not sure the difference, and it absorbs readily. Macadamia oil is close in composition to the oils of our skin supposedly, and tallow too. Strong combination imo, of course I might be bias with a name like MooMac.

 

[MooMac]

If you are personally fine with rubbing raw tallow into your skin, it's okay, of course. But make sure that whatever oils you do use, will absorb without residue as quickly as you desire.

Some oils take a lot longer to absorb or leave an undesirable oily residue. When I sit on my couch watching TV, or have to get dressed and go out, I don't want to have to wait a long time for absorption, or to have to wipe residue off my skin in order to get dressed or walk on my carpet (or hardwood floors for that matter.)

I hear that! I think tallow and macadamia absorb at record speeds, I find coconut oil takes a bit in comparison. I definitely don't want anyone to try a sample and walk away feeling icky.

 

[MooMac]

Growing poor and in the country, it’s less a gross factor than if the product can be used up before the tallow goes rancid.

I hear tallow can last up to a year or so being left out. But I imagine heat and humidity can really change that?

 

[Catscankim]

Soap, by its nature, kills germs. It's why handwashing is so effective. It doesn't matter if the soap is made from lard or tallow, olive oil or coconut or some exotic oil hand pressed by sky-clad virgin during the blue moon of the second Tuesday of the week.

I LOL so hard at this

Also, if that oil was made on the second Tuesday of the WEEK, I really want some of that special oil lol.

 

[Marsi]

I see! I was hoping ground chives powder might still have some benefit to being in soap but it looks like that's not the case.

the benefit of sulphur is effective in soap for some skin conditions
the smell of sulphur survives saponification
the amount of sulphur required to be medically effective makes the soap smell disgusting IMHO

a garlic experiment
https://tisserandinstitute.org/learn-more/tasting-garlic-through-feet-aromatherapy/
the allium plant family is sulphurous
chives are part of the allium plant family
chives contain less sulphur and smell sweeter than garlic

i would be interested to hear your thoughts on chive powder in soap
i have never tried that

(no medicinal claims are allowed in my country for soap until it has been certified for theraputical use - this is an expensive process)

 

[MooMac]

the benefit of sulphur is effective in soap for some skin conditions
the smell of sulphur survives saponification
the amount of sulphur required to be medically effective makes the soap smell disgusting IMHO

a garlic experiment
https://tisserandinstitute.org/learn-more/tasting-garlic-through-feet-aromatherapy/
the allium plant family is sulphurous
chives are part of the allium plant family
chives contain less sulphur and smell sweeter than garlic

i would be interested to hear your thoughts on chive powder in soap
i have never tried that

(no medicinal claims are allowed in my country for soap until it has been certified for theraputical use - this is an expensive process)

That foot experiment was interesting! Thank you for sharing My thoughts on chive powder aren't super developed yet. Mostly I grow chives so i want to find many uses for them. Chives seem to have benefits when consumed so I figure they may have benefits when applied. Chives solutions have been used on wounds and other ailments so that seemed promising to incorporate. I'm also trying to get an earthy, grass smell like of a prairie into my soap, I think a hint of chives would be a potential note in that.

 

[Quanta]

(no medicinal claims are allowed in my country for soap until it has been certified for theraputical use - this is an expensive process)

Same in the USA. You would have to have a licensed drug manufacturing facility, which is different than a facility for manufacturing ordinary soap. The process for getting permission from the FDA to manufacture drugs is expensive. And when people make drug claims about their soap ("helps heal [any skin condition]") without having gone through the proper process and licensing, the FDA does step in and put a stop to it.

That foot experiment was interesting! Thank you for sharing My thoughts on chive powder aren't super developed yet. Mostly I grow chives so i want to find many uses for them. Chives seem to have benefits when consumed so I figure they may have benefits when applied. Chives solutions have been used on wounds and other ailments so that seemed promising to incorporate. I'm also trying to get an earthy, grass smell like of a prairie into my soap, I think a hint of chives would be a potential note in that.

With modern knowledge of bacteria and other germs, and of antibiotics, I recommend not putting chives or any other botanical mixture on open wounds. That is asking for an infection. People in the past did not know any better. They didn't know about cleaning wounds and the sterilization of bandages so they got infections anyway. There is no way to sterilize chives to the point that it's safe to put them on a wound. Even if you could, they wouldn't work nearly as well as modern antibiotics.

 

[cmzaha]

Insightful, thank you. I've been thinking of adding coconut milk and/or aloe vera into my soap as well...but you're saying it's unlikely qualities make it past the lye? Even if added after much of the lye reaction in hot soap? I'd like to have intentional ingredients but if I'm not sure and customers are sure they like it, that's compelling

Thought a little thought, after selling literally thousands of bars of soaps my customers began reporting back after several years that my soaps progressed from fantastic to awesome. The awesome came after I dropped most additives such as aloe and milks for soaping with vinegar, sorbitol, and EDTA/sodium gluconate combination. I did continue making GM soaps for the hard-core folks that still thought GM soaps were magic, but my regular customers knew better. Anything I added other than salt in my salt bars and AC where for label appeal only.

 

[MooMac]

Same in the USA. You would have to have a licensed drug manufacturing facility, which is different than a facility for manufacturing ordinary soap. The process for getting permission from the FDA to manufacture drugs is expensive. And when people make drug claims about their soap ("helps heal [any skin condition]") without having gone through the proper process and licensing, the FDA does step in and put a stop to it.


With modern knowledge of bacteria and other germs, and of antibiotics, I recommend not putting chives or any other botanical mixture on open wounds. That is asking for an infection. People in the past did not know any better. They didn't know about cleaning wounds and the sterilization of bandages so they got infections anyway. There is no way to sterilize chives to the point that it's safe to put them on a wound. Even if you could, they wouldn't work nearly as well as modern antibiotics.

Disheartening but makes sense!

 

[MooMac]

Thought a little thought, after selling literally thousands of bars of soaps my customers began reporting back after several years that my soaps progressed from fantastic to awesome. The awesome came after I dropped most additives such as aloe and milks for soaping with vinegar, sorbitol, and EDTA/sodium gluconate combination. I did continue making GM soaps for the hard-core folks that still thought GM soaps were magic, but my regular customers knew better. Anything I added other than salt in my salt bars and AC where for label appeal only.

Interesting! I've heard a lot of different opinions on adding ACV to soap, why di you use it and what do you notice? Or are you saying you use vinegar and apple cider in your soaps? Still curious on the effects that would have! On the ultimate soap hp website I think it was, they didn't seem to find any positives to using vinegar in soap except i think they said itll raise your superfat percentage by reacting with some of the lye?

 

[AliOop]

Vinegar hardens the soap so it unmolds more cleanly. It also acts as a mild chelator, and makes the lather feel... softer?

It does react with some of the lye, so either increase your lye amount, or decrease your superfat. Many threads here will give you the formula for doing that; some soap calculators will also adjust for using vinegar.

 

[MooMac]

Vinegar hardens the soap so it unmolds more cleanly. It also acts as a mild chelator, and makes the lather feel... softer?

It does react with some of the lye, so either increase your lye amount, or decrease your superfat. Many threads here will give you the formula for doing that; some soap calculators will also adjust for using vinegar.

I see, I thought that website I mentioned said vinegar is not a chelator. Is it more like a sort of almost chelator? You've definitely noticed the difference when incorporating vinegar though? Thank you!