Castile Bar Liquid Soap Going Cloudy

[hmlove1218]

I made the lye heavy castile a few months a go and have recently started making it into a liquid soap. I really like it and the only qualm I'm having is every time I add my EOs, it clouds the otherwise crystal clear soap. Any advice?

Recipe:
30 grams grated soap
200 grams water
1 gram EO

Process:
Add soap flakes and water to small sauce pan. Heat on low until completely clear and no longer chunky. Remove from heat, add EOs, and funnel into a bottle.

Could it have something to do with my EO blends? Last time I used half and half sweet orange 5× and lavender 40/42. This time I used 2 ml sweet orange 5×, 10 drops lemon, 5 drops lime.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...Could it have something to do with my EO blends?..."

Yes, it probably does. When you do A + B and end up with C and you do this a couple of times with similar results, I'd say it's probably wise to suspect a connection.

On top of that, you're not the only one. Among others, I've seen this too: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51237.

Have you tried just mixing a drop or two of a single EO into a small sample of your LS and see what each one does? The common EO in both blends is sweet orange, so maybe start with that one first.

edit:

Oh, I just realized you're using bar soap. I don't recommend making liquid soap by using an NaOH soap as your base, so that too may be a part of your problem. NaOH soap, even when diluted in a lot of water, generally thickens into a ropy, slimy or even firm gel. KOH soap remains more soluble in water, so it keeps a pourable consistency.

There are some soapers who claim to have success making a decent pourable LS using NaOH, but no one who claims success has yet been able to tell me specifically what blend of fats will reliably make a non-snotty LS when using NaOH. Some claim that you have to use only liquid fats; others appear to have success with high coconut oil blends. It seems at this point to be pretty much luck. Experienced soapers here on SMF have tried this idea http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=52597 and got the usual results one sees with NaOH -- ropy, slimy, or firm gels rather than a smooth pourable liquids.

 

[hmlove1218]

Yes I remember the recent thread of the NaOH liquid soap. I found it very interesting and almost tried it until everyone posted their results.

I have noticed, however, that castile doesn't separate and act like snot floating in water. It seems to stay together. It is, however, a little on the thick side, but I like it that way. It's a gel. I could thin it up if I added more water, but I don't want to.

It's so far the only bar soap I've found that will not separate from the water if used to make liquid soap.

I'll test it out without the sweet orange EO and see if it still clouds up.

 

[DeeAnna]

Well, maybe you've lit on the answer there -- a soap high in oleic acid. Maybe the collective liquid soap making community will continue to define the parameters of what works and what doesn't for liquid soap made with NaOH until it's less about guesses and luck and more about science and craft.

Yes, my comments about EOs should still apply, so I hope you can play around with your EOs and find some answers to your problem. Best of luck on that -- please share what you find out, because I'm curious!

 

[Susie]

I started to reply to this about half a dozen times. I decided that anything I said would not be terribly helpful, because I have not had good results with bar soap or NaOH liquid soap attempts, and I did not exactly know what you were calling cloudy. Now that DeeAnna has clarified that, I know what to say.

Citrus EOs can be notorious for causing cloudiness in liquid soaps. Not all of them, not every time. Very hit or miss at the best of times.

I have had, by far, the best results with Crafter's Choice EOs. The only one I get a consistent cloudiness from is lemon. I happen to adore lemon, but I can sub in lemongrass and my nose does not recognize the difference enough to bother me. Lemongrass smells just a bit "sweeter" for lack of a better description. Maybe less bitter is a better description. I can get away with everything else reliably.

 

[hmlove1218]

Thanks DeeAnna and Susie! I'll play around with the EOs and see if that changes anything.

Well I was going to post a pic to better define "cloudy", but it has now gone "creamy".:what: Here's a few pics.

 

[hmlove1218]

Pics