Adding Citrus Juice to CP Soap?

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JuliaGulia

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Hello! :wave:
I'm very new to all of this, I've actually never made CP soap before. My Mother and I have been meaning to try it for the longest time. For my first batch of soap I would really like to make a dupe of a Lush soap called Sexy Peel. I've only tried Lush once, and it was pretty over priced so I decided to make my own.
I'm not exactly sure how Lush can add fresh citrus juice to CP soap. I would imagine the acidity in the juice would neutralize the lye and it wouldn't ever set up.
Just like this video: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFOdi989-aU[/ame]

Though, I'm not intending to add the juice with the lye instead if using water.
I was wondering if I lessen the amount of water I use to make the lye water, and after it comes to trace could I then add in the juice for a supplement to the water I didn’t use for the correct amount of lye water? If that makes sense, haha. Or could I use the correct amount of water for making the lye water, and then after the soap comes to trace, could I add as much juice as I want?
If all else fails, could I add as much juice as I want to a rebatch/milled soap?
There are also two videos published to youtube from lush on “how it’s made”. If anyone who knows a lot more about CP soap making could take a look and explain to me how this is possible, it would be greatly appreciated!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNGVarH6VaY&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9H-k3sIbj0[/ame]
And I also here a list of the quantitative ingredients straight from the Lush site :
Water (Aqua) , Rapeseed Oil , Coconut Oil (Brassica napus; Helianthus annuus; Cocos nucifera) , Propylene Glycol , Cornstarch (Zea mays) , Lemon Peel (Citrus limonum) , Orange Peel (Citrus dulcis) , Sodium Stearate , Sodium Hydroxide , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Fresh Organic Lemon Juice (Citrus limonum) , Fresh Organic Orange Juice (Citrus Aurantium dulcis) , Lime Oil (Citrus aurantifolia) , Fragrance , Lime Peel (Citrus aurantifolia) , Grapefruit Oil (Citrus grandis) , Fresh Organic Lime Juice (Citrus aurantifolia) , Lemon Oil (Citrus limonum) , Glycerine , Sodium Chloride , EDTA , Tetrasodium Editronate , *Citral , *Geraniol , *Citronellol , *Limonene , *Linalool
And if Lush doesn’t use the CP method to make this soap, I am completely sorry about this incorrect post!!

Thanks!!! :thumbup:
 

Kansas Farm Girl

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Welcome to the idea of CP and glad you are interested in soap making. But I would suggest that you get the technique down before trying to duplicate the Lush soap. You didn't say if you have ever made HP soap, just that you haven't made CP. I would suggest to start with some basic recipes and learn the basics of CP before trying too many additives. I am sure you will love the entire soaping journey, but start at the beginning.

Not trying to be a spoil sport, but you need to have a good understanding of the entire process, a good foundation.
 

Lindy

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I saw a soapmaking video last night where she used 2 cups of lemon juice in a 5 pound batch :Kitten Love:

I am really intrigued by this and I think I may have to experiment with it..... I would love to hear if anyone here has tried it....
 

2lilboots

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I saw a soapmaking video last night where she used 2 cups of lemon juice in a 5 pound batch :Kitten Love:

I am really intrigued by this and I think I may have to experiment with it..... I would love to hear if anyone here has tried it....
Did it turn out?
 

Lindy

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hoegarden that's the vid I'm talking about. Yeah I think I'm going to try it but not use the lemon juice as my water. I really like the idea of using the rind, zest, seeds and pulp pureed like that. Hmmmmm......

2lilboots apparently and she says she makes it all the time. I don't understand how it isn't neutralizing the lye.
 

2lilboots

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hoegarden that's the vid I'm talking about. Yeah I think I'm going to try it but not use the lemon juice as my water. I really like the idea of using the rind, zest, seeds and pulp pureed like that. Hmmmmm......

2lilboots apparently and she says she makes it all the time. I don't understand how it isn't neutralizing the lye.
I know the one on soaping101 didn't turn out when she used the lemons and lemon juice in her soap.
 

judymoody

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To answer your question, these ingredients suggest that this particular soap is made with a M&P base. I'm not sure what lemon juice would bring to the party except perhaps to effectively increase your superfat as it would use up some of the lye (as you already suggested).

To start, I would suggest that you make some basic batches (try soapqueen for some good beginner recipes and run them through a lye calculator like soapcalc.net to check for accuracy). If you like citrus, try some lemongrass or litsea cubeba EO as they stick well in CP soap and don't act up with respect to acceleration, ricing, discoloration. Lime, lemon and grapefruit essential oils do not stick particularly well in CP soap.
 

Lindy

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I know the one on soaping101 didn't turn out when she used the lemons and lemon juice in her soap.
I think where she went wrong was using the lemon juice as her liquid.
 

melstan775

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Welcome JuliaGulia! I can't answer your question but wanted to comment on the awesome screen name. :)
 

2lilboots

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I would use the zest maybe but that would be it. I would think the seeds would have to be finely ground in order to not be scratchy.
 

soapsydaisy

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This thread reminds me of my only visit to Lush. My husband still laughs about it. I walked into the store and the valley girl working at the time approached me and started telling me all about their "real" soap. I asked her what it was made of and she answered "it has lemons in it".
 

hoegarden

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hoegarden that's the vid I'm talking about. Yeah I think I'm going to try it but not use the lemon juice as my water. I really like the idea of using the rind, zest, seeds and pulp pureed like that. Hmmmmm......

2lilboots apparently and she says she makes it all the time. I don't understand how it isn't neutralizing the lye.
Thats the thing that I am trying to understand too. If it is just base on simple chemistry, we all know lye is a strong alkaline, and lemon juice is strong acid. We might get a mixture where the NaOH is already reacting with the acid instead of the oil! :eh:
 

Lindy

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I think it will be a fun experiment..... LOL
 

melstan775

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This thread reminds me of my only visit to Lush. My husband still laughs about it. I walked into the store and the valley girl working at the time approached me and started telling me all about their "real" soap. I asked her what it was made of and she answered "it has lemons in it".
Oh please don't stop there. Did she also say, "and um, it's made with real oils so like your skin doesn't dry like with Dove. Youre here because you want better then that I'm suuuuuure.".
 

sagehill

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I have a recipe saved some 10 years ago, calling for two pulverized lemons added at trace. I always intended to try it, but never did.
Lemon Soap
26 oz Olive Oil
26 oz. lard

6 1/2 oz. lye
20 oz. water

Make your basic CP soap. When soap comes to trace, add 2 lemons that have been run through the blender, then before pouring, add tea tree and lemongrass EOs per recommended amounts
Running this through a lye calculator, it's very high in superfat... nearly 9%; lemon juice's acidity probably takes it to 10%. No wonder it's considered a gentle soap! Or you could drop the superfat some. ;) It's also rather more water than I would use.

Either way, if you go the whole lemon route, I'd use organic lemons or else scrub the rind very well... citrus fruits are one of the most heavily toxin-laden fruits around. I sure wouldn't want them in my soap...
 

sagehill

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Cruised through my old soaping files (1999-2003 when I quit soaping), and found the following conversation about lemons in soap. There's an interesting tidbit on using lemon as a chelator for hard water and for preventing soap scum.

I really should try lemon juice, or at least citric acid, as I have very hard water and haven't been able to find any EDTA.

Lemon Juice in Soap

- Lemon juice contains citric acid and will react with the lye, forming the tri-sodium salt of citric acid which functions in your soap as a kind of chelator, similar to EDTA. That means it forms a compound which will react with the minerals in hard water, to reduce the soap scum when you're using the soap... that's the theory anyway.

- There are a number of people adding pure citric acid to their soap on purpose, the get this effect. The advantage of citric acid over lemon juice is that you KNOW how much you're adding, so you can adjust the lye. I've seen notes lately from a few people who are simply adding sodium citrate instead, so they get the chelating effect without having to worry about the lye adjustments. The acid content of lemon juice is variable, so its not as easy to allow the right amount of extra lye. If you don't allow extra, you simply end up with a soap that is a little more superfatted then you'd intended.

- I have a favourite soap that I make that contains lemon juice, grated lemon rind and orange and lime essential oils. I add the lemon juice as part of the water (half and half generally) and just add the lye straight to it. Can't say I ever considered that it would be detrimental to do so! The soap has always turned out really well and is a favourite of several of my relatives.

Citrus Soap
5 ounces grapeseed oil
6 ounces olive oil
4 ounces palm oil
1 ounce beeswax

1.9 ounces lye
3 ounces water
2 ounces lemon juice
grated rind of one medium sized lemon
orange essential oil
lime essential oil

I squeeze the lemons until I get roughly the right amount of juice (depends on the size of the lemons of course), then just top up with water until my liquid reaches the required amount. Add lemon rind at fairly thick trace, otherwise most of it sinks to the bottom of the moulds.


- I did a s/poo bar with one whole lemon in (put it through the blender first though). I cp'd it and it was as hard as any others I had done, did the same with grapefruit too.
I did not check the above recipe. I really should spend more time reading my own files... I bet I have answers for nearly every question. LOL
 

JuliaGulia

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Wow thanks everyone for the responses! I really wasn’t expecting it. :D

@Kansas Farm Girl: Thank for the tip! I’m definitely going to try to get the hang of it before I try to go all out! My mom just received her first order from bramble berry today. We're probably going to be making some basic soap this weekend.
@judymoody: I didn’t know that some scents work better, or last longer than others. Is there somewhere where I can find a list of how each one sticks? It is it just all trial and error?
@melstan775: Haha thanks! :)
@Lindy: It’ll definitely be an experiment when I get up to trying it. I’ll definitely be posting about it to tell all of you guys about how it went!
@sagehill: Thanks for the recipes!!! I’m defiantly going to look into both of those recipes some more. Oh and I don’t worry about buying lemons. I live in Southern California and I have a big lemon tree, a few orange trees, and a lime tree in my yard! It’s really great to see how much knowledge is here! Thanks!
 

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