I have not seen unusual DOS problems with the two commercial lard brands available from Walmart stores here in the midwestern US -- speaking from memory, that's Armor and Snowcap. I haven't used Farmer John brand, and I'm very curious about the results from Carolyn's tests. Columbus Foods lard should be decent stuff. I haven't used the lard or tallow, but I've used their liquid fats and am pleased with the quality.
100% lard batch misbehaved? :( Need advice...
- Thread starter nsmar4211
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Now I'm really curious about differences between brands of lard. I've always used the Armour/Manteca brand from Wally World and I'm pretty sure it contains BHT & EDTA as additives. I thought these additives would help prevent DOS and I've only had one lard batch go funky on me (it also included grapeseed oil which is definitely DOS prone).
I do have some rendered lard I bought from the farmer's market. I've kept it in the freezer but might thaw some out for soaping experiments. I would have to make the exact same recipe with both types of lard as a true test.
I do have some rendered lard I bought from the farmer's market. I've kept it in the freezer but might thaw some out for soaping experiments. I would have to make the exact same recipe with both types of lard as a true test.
regansoap
Well-Known Member
I think the green and beige look quite nice - don't be so hard on yourself
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
The green and white is armour and the blue and white is snowcap. I use armour and I don't get DOS, I have used snowcap in the past but it smells too piggy for my liking.
Not a closeup, but you can see the extent of the dos. The smelllll..... The lineup is how it was in the loaf, interesting that the middle (which usually heats more) isn't developing it as fast. And its just the top part of the bars which is why Im blaming batch failure...
~What~ did you put on the top of that soap? I have never seen DOS so clearly defined like this, and I do agree it looks like DOS, at least from a distance. But Dos from lard should be an overall discoloration throughout the bar, not just on the top. There's something odd going on here .... I strongly suspect it's not the lard.
Whatever you lined that mold with is the issue. DOS would be all the way through, not just on the bottom and sides. That is not a lard issue.
Interesting and yes, following, so I can see the answer re: what's on the tops. I use my own home rendered lard and have never, ever seen anything like that.
There's nothing extra on the top-seriously...it was a 100% lard batch! Silicone unlined uncoated mold that's been used a dozen times before and since and nothing else did this. I was suspecting lye bloom (the start of the thread) and was told that's not really a thing...but I wonder it the top layer was somehow less lye-y? If it was poured too soon, maybe the oils settled on top and didn't have enough lye mixed in?
I didn't cover the mold, so no contaminent from a covering. Kept the bars out drying where I dry everything else for a week and then they went into the cardboard box that you see there. Two other bars (same batch) in the same box did not dos, those were dregs poured into smaller molds (those two I kept). One bar not pictured was across two of the orange bars (stacked across) and where it touched the orange it was also orange.
The box is an Ensure box from my kitchen, clean and dry and those bars only go half the height and didn't touch the cardboard anywhere. No odor to the box, and again the two smaller bars are ok so far (and one of those actually was up against the cardboard side). Dozens of bars in those boxes, no dos. They are stacked cross ways so the air is circulating (half the top is open). Stored at room temp like all the other ones...
The scented bars in the smaller silicone loaf mold are not showing this orange (and they were dried for a week in the same area), although they did get mixed better (to mix the scent in) so the "under blended" theory would see true...
The smell was rancid and BLEH...I can't describe it other than to say it was wrong LOL.
After doing some digging, that was indeed the blue and white tubs in that batch. Dug around more and it was Goya brand. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005F5K71C/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Got it at a spanish grocery store near me when walmart was out of the other one. It did smell more piggy than the Armour brand. I'm not sure what the turnover is like for that lard in the grocery store, and I don't remember checking the dates (which I do now). The tubs are long gone
.
Once I get the gift bars done, I will revist this 100% lard idea...with the Armour brand only and blending the snot out of it in case of false trace!!
I didn't cover the mold, so no contaminent from a covering. Kept the bars out drying where I dry everything else for a week and then they went into the cardboard box that you see there. Two other bars (same batch) in the same box did not dos, those were dregs poured into smaller molds (those two I kept). One bar not pictured was across two of the orange bars (stacked across) and where it touched the orange it was also orange.
The box is an Ensure box from my kitchen, clean and dry and those bars only go half the height and didn't touch the cardboard anywhere. No odor to the box, and again the two smaller bars are ok so far (and one of those actually was up against the cardboard side). Dozens of bars in those boxes, no dos. They are stacked cross ways so the air is circulating (half the top is open). Stored at room temp like all the other ones...
The scented bars in the smaller silicone loaf mold are not showing this orange (and they were dried for a week in the same area), although they did get mixed better (to mix the scent in) so the "under blended" theory would see true...
The smell was rancid and BLEH...I can't describe it other than to say it was wrong LOL.
After doing some digging, that was indeed the blue and white tubs in that batch. Dug around more and it was Goya brand. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005F5K71C/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Got it at a spanish grocery store near me when walmart was out of the other one. It did smell more piggy than the Armour brand. I'm not sure what the turnover is like for that lard in the grocery store, and I don't remember checking the dates (which I do now). The tubs are long gone
. Once I get the gift bars done, I will revist this 100% lard idea...with the Armour brand only and blending the snot out of it in case of false trace!!
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Obsidian
Well-Known Member
When I make 100% lard, I soap hot to speed trace. Any scent/colors/additives are mixed into the melted lard before adding the lye.
Just an update.......I think I may have found another part of the issue. In researching lye solution information in this thread http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53642&page=2
DeeAnna mentions the lye solution in lard vs coconut.I went and reran the numbers and I was only at a 28% solution of lye. Now that I'm understanding %of oils vs lye concentration better, I see that this was a ton of water...couple that with not mixing well enough due to false trace and maybe old lard and we get DOS?.
Hope is not lost....now I have a number to tweak in the receipe....
DeeAnna mentions the lye solution in lard vs coconut.I went and reran the numbers and I was only at a 28% solution of lye. Now that I'm understanding %of oils vs lye concentration better, I see that this was a ton of water...couple that with not mixing well enough due to false trace and maybe old lard and we get DOS?.
Hope is not lost....now I have a number to tweak in the receipe....
I really don't think using a 28% lye concentration would trigger DOS. And your soap doesn't show any sign (at least in the photo above) of any separation, so I don't think inadequate mixing or false trace or emulsion failure were problems either.
I would also expect an overall color change if the lard was rancid -- not just DOS on the top and sides. (Or maybe you're seeing that now?)
I'm still puzzled.
I would also expect an overall color change if the lard was rancid -- not just DOS on the top and sides. (Or maybe you're seeing that now?)
I'm still puzzled.
