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100% lard batch misbehaved? :( Need advice...

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nsmar4211

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I got brave and decided I'd do a 100% lard batch for my allergy friends...andddd that didn't work. Curious if anyone can tell me what might be the issue(s)?

Recipe: 45 oz of lard
14.85 of water
6.04 of lye (ended up being 6)
33% water as percent of oil weight
Lard melted in micro until 95% clear (rest melted by the time I poured it into mixing bowl)
Lye left until clear, used at warm temp (could hold hand on side of plastic pitcher).

First off, the trace was weird. Usually I get trace fairly quick, but those other batches have had 15% coconut in them and seem to trace faster. This time I blended for a few minutes and, well, I thought it was traced. I didn't want to overtrace, since 1lb I wanted to add a tester fragrance to. Poured into the 33oz silicone loaf mold, and then poured the 1lb mold, and then poured leftovers into single silicone molds. So far so good. Big mold, no scent added. 1lb mold, I added Blackberry from Brambleberry, as well as purple M&P dye (yesyes I know) and some activated charcoal for a swirl play attempt. One small single I added a sample of another scent from another company and then three were plain.

Here's when I got concerned: the 1lb mold, the M&P turned barf yellow. I've used this color on several test batches in 65% lard recipies with no morphing issues! I do see the purple color in the middle but I didnt' encourage gel. Room was at 84. The bigger loaf, started gelling in the middle anyway so I wrapped it up and left it overnight. This morning when I unwrapped it I noticed random crystaly things on top...uhoh..... then I unmolded and lye bloom on the sides! They zapped so they aren't ash-it's lye, powdery and round patches.

As you can see, the big loaf almost completely gelled. I didn't take a pic of the top because I don't want to handle it with the lye on the sides until I'm ready to toss it in the microwave/crockpot. Whyyyyy do I have lye sides? The small bleh colored loaf does not have lye sides, although it's softer than the big loaf which is a concern (is the excess lye in the big loaf what belongs in the little one?). The small molded soaps are fine, even the one with the sample new frag has no lye issues visible and passes the tongue test and is as hard as I would expect.

Soooo.... did I have an overheating issue? Or was this not mixed enough (thick enough trace)? Is 100% lard just not for me? And most importantly, should I mix alllll the soap back in for a rebatch or just assume that the small loaf has the right amount of lye in it? (because that is an UGLY color I dont want to have a huge batch of and not too many ways to recolor). Help!

(the moisture visible is only maybe a drop, I didn't zap test it because the bloom was enough for my tongue)

Updated in thread 9/27/15

lye side two.jpg

baby barf yellow.jpg

lye side one.JPG
 
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Obsidian

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Lard traces really slow, it possible you poured a bit too soon. I would cut the loaf and zap test again in a week or so. Zap testing right after unmolding is too soon.
 

Seawolfe

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Is it possible that you just unmolded it too quickly? I have a feeling the sides will sort themselves out. Definate zap you say? The zap feeling and not a taste?

Once thing I worry about with high lard recipes is whats called a "false trace" where the fats start to cool and solidify before the lye can start the saponification. If you do have a false trace there is a possibility of separation. Your loaf doesn't look like it separated.

Many colors made for M&P morph in CP soap, so now you know how that goes. But I would leave them all a couple days and see if I wasn't in a big hurry to rebatch (which I never am). They might come around.
 

nsmar4211

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*ears perk up* There might be hope? At least for the icky colored loaf...

Definite zap on the bloom. Well, I say that...but I didn't get the "bit into a metal eraser" shudder I got before. Not really wanting to repoke with my tongue though. Maybe I'll relick later? A week sounds good :).

Unmolding too soon would cause lye bloom areas ? Or is it just concentrated at those areas, or maybe its future ash?

That might mean the small batch is not lye light then? It did get blended more due to the FO and the colorant, so too light of trace would make sense on the big loaf...and the small single bars were the bottom of the bowl so maybe more mixing (stick blender sucking to bottom wheee).

Going to put on gloves and cut the loaf incase its ok.... Edit: Cut the loaf. Good thing, it's getting hard! Double bullseye from the incomplete gel in part of the loaf..
 
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not_ally

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I'm not sure if this is what Sea meant, but I thought it was more that it was more of a question that if you wait to unmold until your log is harder, some of that stuff will have dried up by itself. So you didn't create/worsen the problem by unmolding to soon. But she is a sciency-type, she may have something more useful in mind.

Also, I don't really worry too much about a soap being lye light, if it saponifies properly it has enough lye. The only thing that might trouble me is if the lye ratio in the different pours/molds was off far enough somehow that part of the batch was superfatted to a higher degree than I wanted. But it doesn't seem like that would be the case here.
 

Obsidian

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I've not actually ever heard of lye bloom. Too me, it looks like it might have got a bit too hot and had some of the lye solution leach out, then settle on the sides.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with either batch.
 

cmzaha

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If poured at light emulsion, which is what it sounds like, it can stay very zappy for 72 hrs. Very light emulsions can turn to ash quickly since more un-saponified lye solution is loose to hit the air, forming soda ash. 100% lard can be very slow tracing
 

nsmar4211

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*hugs forum*

Okay, now I don't feel so bad. Settling out and pouring too soon makes a lot more sense than some horror scenario I had in my head. I will put these guys aside for a week and see if the big loaf still zaps. I'm not sure why I was under the impression that lard traces faster than other things, maybe because a) I need to take better notes or b)because it's solid at room temperature? Soooo now I know, stop trying to pour at a light trace :). Next batch I'll pour at medium pudding stage and see if I have the same issues. Might even try it tonight since my molds are clean now...but no color or scent until I iron this out.

You guys rock! I will continue the experiments....
 

Susie

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I would also consider soaping a tad warmer if using 100% lard just to speed that trace some. I don't do fancy swirls, so I just pour my super hot lye water over the hard oils and proceed to stick blending. Lard is notoriously slow at tracing. If you aren't swirling, you may want to give it a try.
 

nsmar4211

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Got chickened off retrying it last night, but I did get brave enough to poke the sides...less zap now on the big loaf. Small loaf is doing well except the GAH color. I may end up cutting the tops off, the middle isn't as bad. Realized the yellow matches BrambleBerry's labels LOL.

Will update when I try the next batch, and will try not letting the lye cool down so much!!!
 

not_ally

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*hugs forum*

I'm not sure why I was under the impression that lard traces faster than other things
You probably read it somewhere, I have as well occasionally. Based on the peoples' actual experiences (mine and tons of others here and elsewhere), I do not think that is the case at all, though.
 

cmzaha

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Lard can give you a "false" trace a if soaping to cool. I actually never called it false trace but I do understand why it is called that. It will thicken up quickly and make you think it is traced but in reality it is not. Just keep stirring until the lye begins reacting and it will thin out and change color.
 

nsmar4211

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Quicky update:

Holy DOS!!! Was checking /rearranging batches and noticed an orange soap.... wait...I've only made one batch of orange and this wasn't it.... ewwwwwwwwww.

All of the unscented/uncolored loaf had 1/16th ish of an inch of orange/yellow DOS on top and one side. And yes, def. DOS due to the smell-didn't even want to handle it long enough to do detailed pics. The two small single mold bars are oddly enough not dos'd and were an inch away from the dos'd stuff, so I kept those and tossed the rest as I don't want to chance it spreading. That batch did not want to be I guess!

The colored/scented calmed down to an orangy purple, but I'm not going to give that one out and will just keep it for myself just in case it dos's later.

Well, I now have proof positive of what DOS smells like. Blech.
 

cmzaha

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Yum! I'd suggest keeping it for future reference but I think that you need no reminders!

I wonder why so much dos formed
Keep a note of which brand of lard you used that went dos. When I was doing some lard tallow experminents I had Farmer John lard turned completely orange. I am thinking maybe it is the BHT (food preservative) levels in used. I have some BHT so I am going to rerun and test some lard brands again with and without additional BHT
 

IrishLass

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Keep a note of which brand of lard you used that went dos. When I was doing some lard tallow experminents I had Farmer John lard turned completely orange. I am thinking maybe it is the BHT (food preservative) levels in used. I have some BHT so I am going to rerun and test some lard brands again with and without additional BHT
I take it that you suspect Farmer John's has less BHT? Let us know your results!


IrishLass :)
 

lenarenee

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Since I use a lot of lard I've very interested in this thread. The highest I've used is 80%, but usually use about 65% percent.

I have many 65% lard Farmer Johns soaps that were made early January, and out of 50 bars, 2 have dos. (I really got to get these out to people soon as I'm now concerned they may dos'ing soon. I made these for the Lost Boys of Sudan, but the woman who distributes them has had so much personal stuff this year.)

I got a hold of the Smart n Final lard about March and have been using it ever since, with no issues. Both have BHT, so who knows?
 

aprice522

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I just made my first 100% lard today also. I did oven process since I wanted gel and was using a silicone alone.

Now I am scared of the dos. I'm using the 50#box from the Columbus food/soapers choice. Anyone use that lard???
 

nsmar4211

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Now I'm thinking, which brand did I use? Most of what I've been using is the green and white tub from walmart (not where I can look at name) but now that I think about it, that batch may have been a blue and white tub I got from the spanish food store. Will have to look tomorrow to see if I have any of the blue and white left to check names.

Not sure it was the brands fault though, that batch gave me issues from the start. If I didn't mix long enough it is possible maybe that some of the lard goodies floated to the top which explains the dos on the tops consistantly. The middle did not dos yet...the side could be explained by me pulling away a side of the mold to see if it was unmoldable yet... The two bars done in a different mold (not the loaf) are not showing signs of dos, they were the bottom of the barrel so to speak and closer to the stick blender.

None of my 65% lard bars from the same time are showing DOS and they were all stored in the same conditions. I'm leaning to batch failure!
 
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