What is considered a 100% all natural soap?

[rivervillage]

Hi!
I'm new to soap making and reading a lot about ingredients used. Most say natural but if you are using essential oils, or colorants, is it considered natural/ handmade? Just wondering what is considered "all natural"? Also is tallow all natural?

Thank You!

 

[Arimara]

Natural is an extremely loose term. It means different things to different people. In my personal thinking, a soap made with tallow is just as natural as a soap without it because tallow is animal fat.

 

[SaltedFig]

Hi rivervillage - welcome :wave:

Natural - coming from nature. A search in this forum with bring up a few interesting threads on this topic :mrgreen:

My interpretation is that if it's natural, it comes from nature. If I can squish it, cook it or otherwise simply process it (like boiling water from seawater to get salt), I reckon it's natural. If it's the lab made chemical equivalent, then I don't call that natural (doesn't mean I think it's not good, just that I don't call it "from nature").

So by my interpretation of natural, all-natural isn't something I'd call soap, unless I did the whole wash the ashes with sea water and add some crushed rock process to get my lye. You can make soap with all-natural ingredients - that can be a valid claim. Essential oils extracted by steam distillation I would consider natural, as I would expeller pressed olive oil. Some colours are natural (such as clays), but in that example the same colours can be often be synthesized in a purer form than the original product, and not be considered natural.

Handmade is another term that gets a bit bent (it is different from natural). This one can vary in interpretation of how much work turns a product into a handmade product.

Tallow is the fat that is from cows. Most often it is natural. It can be modified by industrial processes (as can a lot of different fats) - and that's where it gets tricky - how much change, changes it from natural to synthetic? The base product is natural ...

 

[WeaversPort]

Saying something is "all natural" is like saying something has alcohol in it. Beer has alcohol, vodka has alcohol.. But so do some vanilla extracts and mouthwashes. Does spaghetti sauce have alcohol if you used red wine? Technically no, but it did before it was cooked off.

All natural to many people, means stuff in the ranges of essential oils, plant based colorants, vegetable oils (possibly lard and tallow if they're not vegetarian or vegan). But hemlock and cyanide are all natural, and they're poisonous.

So generally when this question comes up it can be important to know why "all natural" as a motivation. Some micas are originally natural, but are easier and safer to reproduce in a lab. Also, natural products often aren't consistent from batch to batch - because different years or different areas will have changes in growing conditions. Some oils are natural, but react poorly to sunlight, or are dangerous if the person is young or has certain medical conditions. Orange oil will strip varnish off of wood, machine oil off of metal, react to sunlight, but fade completely in soap unless it's adjusted to stick around. So even though orange oil is "natural" I would still recommend caution.

This is, of course, my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome Rivervillage! :wave:

'All Natural' to most folks here on the forum (and to me) is pretty much a meaningless term since it can mean pretty much anything to anyone, especially since there is no 'legal' definition of the term when it comes to selling/labeling ones wares (at least in the US anyway).

Unless it exists/grows in nature, un-manipulated/unaltered by human hands, I personally don't consider any product to be "all natural", and I confess that I hate seeing the term listed on soap labels. It is a big pet peeve of mine because the lye used to produce it is chemically manufactured, and the oils and fats that go into it may or may nor be solvent-extracted (several are).... the same goes with some of the EO's on the market (some are solvent extracted), not to mention that many of the colorants we use may be synthetic. I could go on and on.

My soap may not have many of the chemicals that commercial soaps might have, but in no way do I consider it 'all natural". I try to make it as close to 'natural' as I can, but according to the natural definition of the term 'natural', I'd be lying if I labeled it as 'all natural" or even simply 'natural'. lol

I don't sell my soap, but I gift a lot of it and I just label it as "Handmade", because it was my hands that mixed all the ingredients, and then cut it and beveled it, etc... I also list all my ingredients on it, too, in case someone is allergic to any of them.


IrishLass

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

A 100% all-natural soap is the mass that would gather in the wet ashes of a cooking fire when the animal fats mix with the weak lye and produce a soapy substance.

Other than that, soap is then made by people in the same way that a factory-produced but nature-identical product is then also man-made. Even our lye is not "natural" in that, while it is a natural substance, what we buy is carefully produced in a controlled environment. Which for me means that no soap can ever be "natural" as you will struggle to find nicely cut bars of soap in nature, where it was all combined together by no-one at all.

Now, is your soap made with "all-natural" ingredients? That would be a label, "made with all natural ingredients" - of course, I doubt that your soap would be made with "all natural" ingredients. Even, when you think about it, an EO is not really "all-natural" in that it was almost 100% certain that someone took the plant matter and put it in some sort of contraption and purposefully extracted the EO.

Which is why the term shows me that either the person is knowingly lying or actually just a touch dimwitted.

 

[Susie]

The US government can't decide what is "natural", so it has no legal definition here.

I agree with the above sentiments, however. Once you use lab created lye, it is no longer natural, IMHO.

However, that does not mean that you can't use caution to keep other "unnatural" ingredients out. Synthetic detergents (syndets) come right to mind. Fragrance oils (as opposed to essential oils) is another.

 

[SaltedFig]

And this is where the discussion seems to head off into an almost theological-style debate :mrgreen: ...

Even, when you think about it, an EO is not really "all-natural" in that it was almost 100% certain that someone took the plant matter and put it in some sort of contraption and purposefully extracted the EO.

Which is why the term shows me that either the person is knowingly lying or actually just a touch dimwitted.

I would argue that an extract (such as an oil extracted from a plant by steaming it) of a natural thing is still a natural thing. I would agree that it is no longer in its natural form (plant matter).

For example, I don't think of my homemade sourdough bread as anything but a natural product, even though it could be argued that by manipulating it I have taken it from its original grainy self (which I have grown and eaten - it's fun and tasty but not nearly as much as the toasted bready version) via grinding and fermenting and cooking to a different (could be argued) artificial thing. It doesn't contain the synthetically produced ingredients that reside in some industrial breads, and I think that is the crux of my use of the word "natural" as "coming from nature".

Without any legal definition of the word, we could debate this back and forth (and call another's opinion deceptive and/or dim-witted :think in the same way that the word organic was debated before certification was used (at least with certification the rules are known). Until then, some will insist that only 100% natural is natural (no changes AT ALL) and others will allow a small step from the thing that exists in nature (that doesn't include synthetics) in the same way that a product that is 95% organic (with some allowed inputs that are mineral, as an example) can be called organic, but not 100% organic.


PS. You could have a 100% natural soap, but I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole! (eeeeeew!)

Which reminds me ... rivervillage, this is just a debate - welcome to one of more intensely debated topics

Or … what Susie said!

 

[navigator9]

I steer clear of the term when describing my soap, because as mentioned above, there is no firm definition of the term. I encourage customers to read my labels and compare to the soap they're using. Most people have never looked at the ingredients in the soap they use, it's a pretty scary list. Once you realize what's in most of those bars, it's an easy choice.

 

[dixiedragon]

I would actually argue that tallow or lard is more natural than most vegetable fats. If I wanted, I could butcher my own pig and render my own lard. But I could not render/extract any kind of vegetable oil (except coconut).

If a soap is called "all natural" I expect it to have natural colors and fragrances and no extra man-made chemicals besides the lye. I'd call that as "natural" as possible for soap. For example, a bar containing honey, salt or sugar I would consider natural but not sodium lactate.

 

[earlene]

Regarding 'handmade', I prefer the term 'handcrafted' but I suppose they are essentially the same. And yes if you made it with your own hands, it's still hand made, right? Natural or not it's handmade if a person used their hands to make it, at least in my book.

For example, when I make clothing using a sewing machine, it's still handmade just as much as the sweater I made using knitting needles. Or a quilt using a sewing machine for some of the seams. I did all the preparation by hand, all the construction using my hands, so of course you can see why I say it's handmade. If I make dinner at home using my stove or crockpot, the soup, etc. that I make is still handmade, although in that case I call it homemade as opposed to handmade. But you see my point, I hope.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think that natural and hand-made/crafted are also two very different things. Even if you spun the cotton in to thread etc etc etc and did it all manually until you ended up with an item of clothing, that item of clothing is not "natural" because you did make it.

"Handmade using natural ingredients" is not saying "all-natural"

 

[SaltedFig]

The FDA (Food and Drug Administration) has called for public comment on the term "natural" in relation to food products. Input into this process closed in May of last year. There current definition for the word is encased in a memo (originally issued in 1982).

Part of the questions asked of the public were very much the same as is being debated here (100% from nature, or minimally processed from nature).

It will be good to have some clarity on the use of the word in the area of food, in the same way that organic is now clearly defined (for certification), as this tends to ripple through to the ingredients used to make soaps (excluding caustic in Australia). Here some of the organic certification bodies have also taken on the memo definition (allowing minimal processing, such as the expeller extraction of oils). Until then, I'm sure we will continue to have the occasional debate over the issue.

The full article can be read here:[FONT=&quot] https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FDA-2014-N-1207-0001[/FONT]

 

[Millie]

I think that natural and hand-made/crafted are also two very different things. Even if you spun the cotton in to thread etc etc etc and did it all manually until you ended up with an item of clothing, that item of clothing is not "natural" because you did make it.

"Handmade using natural ingredients" is not saying "all-natural"

Is a bird's nest natural?

The problem with the question of natural is that if you argue about it long enough eventually some will argue that nothing touched by humans is natural or everything is natural. Fortunately, you can define what natural means to you and share that info with the recipients of your soap if they are concerned.

 

[earlene]

I don't refer to my handcrafted soaps as natural. And in spite of what the US FDA says, if it ever comes up with a definition (I'd be surprised if that happens anytime soon), I doubt it will ever be an immediate concern for me. My concern is that I make soap because I enjoy making soap. I do like knowing what goes into it, but as a fairly well informed consumer, I can make those choices as they present themselves, weighing the pros and cons. And the beauty of that is that I can also explain/educate anyone as needed when I give them soap.

For example, I have explained about how lye saponifies the oils and is no longer an active ingredient in the soap and how I test to make sure soap has no active lye. My husband and my granddaughter and my sons have learned so much more about how soap is made and the ingredients that go into it and why we lick soap. Once, I was asked if my soap is 'all natural' and of course I said, "not really. You can't make soap without lye and even though there is no lye left in it, I had to use it to make the soap." (No one I know IRL think of lye as 'natural' so this seemed a reasonable thing to say.) I also listed some other ingredients in the specific soap in question, such as the fragrance and so forth. So the person had to make their own decision if they thought it was 'natural' or not. It did not seem to be an issue after all. She still wanted soap.

The thing is, so many consumers buy whatever soap they always buy at the market and never even read the label and have no real clue what's actually in the soap. Only a relative few really are looking for soap that is 'all natural', at least that's my observation when I go shopping and when I talk with people about soap. As a consumer I seem to have had a bit more knowledge about soap before I ever started making it, but even so, I didn't pay a lot of attention to the ingredients after the first time I would buy a different brand. They could have changed the formula and added in some chemical or other and I would never have known, because I remained loyal to the same brand of bath soap for a very long time before I started making my own soap. I notice that a lot of people do the same.

For those who want 'all natural' well that's great that they care and actively work toward what they believe in as best for them and the environment. I do the same for myself in many of my choices. But since I don't sell soap and never plan to do so, I don't really have to try and develop an 'all natural' product for anyone. I'm happy developing soap that I am comfortable is as safe as possible in my opinion for my own family.

 

[Susie]

I never use the word "natural" to describe anything. I don't care if something is natural. I care what is in it. That's it. I tell people I made the soap. I don't use the term handcrafted because I don't classify my homely soaps as anything "crafty". They do the job I made them to do.

That is not to say that you can't call your soap "natural" and "handcrafted". Just that I don't call mine that. But if you tell me your soap is "natural", I am walking away. You just identified yourself as someone who is saying what they think a customer wants to hear rather than the truth. Please just tell me that you made your soap rather than buying it pre-made.