yet another label prototype

[SeattleMartin]

preface: very rough pototype for a label. i repeat, very rough prototype. so... i hope to eventually sell my soaps publicly. (possibly this summer? i know, trust me i know, that it may be too early.) in the meantime i am working on labels so that when i give and 'sell' soaps to friends and family i have something on them that will be representative of (similar enough to) a finished and final label when we go public.
(pics at the bottom of the post)

moving on.
i've been working on label ideas for awhile and would like to solicit some feedback. i'm not entirely happy with this design, but i'm trying to stay simple. i'm not new to design work or labels, but this is a first for me in the sense that i am creating labels for myself and my own products. the labels will represent myself, my partners and the company overall. it makes me nervous i have done SO much reading on the subject, made many prototype labels before this one, checked and double checked regulations, checked again, checked some more, fretted and worried, etc etc etc (i second guess myself constantly on almost everything, and am very much my own worst critic.)

which brings me to questions.
1) as a former designer, i recall InDesign from Adobe being a fairly superb tool for desktop publishing. i am prototyping in Photoshop, but am considering going back to a more full package for the sake of other tools such as video editing and desktop publishing. is InDesign still pretty much a pimp? any other thoughts on Adobe products currently?
2) previous labels included ingredients but it felt to be a bit much work when also listing the ingredients with the online listing (private facebook group for now. website in the works. the final label would include a domain name for people to reach the website to get ingredients and more info in general. and yes, i have actually purchased two domain names already and they are parked... but that is a whole separate discussion for a whole separate thread.) but i know that people really want to know what's in the soap, BUT people also tend to discard wrappers pretty quickly anyways so.... thoughts?
3) While it seems a little ... "icky" to say things like natural and organic on the label at all, i realize that this is actually very important to many people these days. the bit of feedback from friends and family suggests this should definitely be on the label but i just don't know how i feel about it yet. i know that i prefer natural and organic ingredients as much as possible but there are also rules about all that. thoughts or advice?

many many thanks for all the help you all offer so regularly. i know it can be difficult to take time out for these things, but i really do appreciate it and know that many other do too. i hope to offer more information over the years to come and to never stop asking questions. learning is so cool

much love,
martin

 

[earlene]

If you want your labels to be sale ready earlier rather than later, here are some things you need to change in order to meet the US FDA & FTC labeling requirements:

Net weight (not approx. weight)
Ingredients list (optional if not a cosmetic, but see links below)
Business/Responsible party address (see links below)

https://www.mariegale.com/quick-labeling-faq/
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rul...eform-proceedings/fair-packaging-labeling-act

 

[Misschief]

If you're familiar with InDesign, you might want to check out Page Plus. It has a lot of the same features as ID but, at $27.99, it's a much better deal. It is a legacy product with no further customer support but the price is right and it's a pretty powerful program. I use it at home and I have it on my work computer as well I work in a print shop; the designers use ID but I really don't need it as I'm in sales. Every now and then, though, I'm called upon to put something together for a customer and Page Plus works just great.

 

[Relle]

I think you can leave off - we love you, we love our planet - earth. We care about you.

That's not something you need on a label, stick to the basics.. Also saying we care about you, we love you - you are marketing to strangers, not someone you know, it's too personal to put that on a label. On that alone I wouldn't buy your product, no matter how good.

Personally, I like to see who the product is made by, the weight, scent and ingredients( I like to know what's in a product before or if I buy) that's it. I'd leave off natural and organic.

The & on the front label I would change to and, because the & looks like little squiggles.

 

[SeattleMartin]

If you're familiar with InDesign, you might want to check out Page Plus. It has a lot of the same features as ID but, at $27.99, it's a much better deal. It is a legacy product with no further customer support but the price is right and it's a pretty powerful program. I use it at home and I have it on my work computer as well I work in a print shop; the designers use ID but I really don't need it as I'm in sales. Every now and then, though, I'm called upon to put something together for a customer and Page Plus works just great.

Much appreicated, I will definitely look into it

I think you can leave off - we love you, we love our planet - earth. We care about you.
That's not something you need on a label, stick to the basics.. Also saying we care about you, we love you - you are marketing to strangers, not someone you know, it's too personal to put that on a label. On that alone I wouldn't buy your product, no matter how good.

Admittedly it sort of breaks my heart a little to hear that as part of my mission is to donate soaps and personal care products to local shelters, but I thank you for your honest opinion and feedback.

Personally, I like to see who the product is made by, the weight, scent and ingredients( I like to know what's in a product before or if I buy) that's it. I'd leave off natural and organic.
The & on the front label I would change to and, because the & looks like little squiggles.

Upon public release I expect to mostly sell online with a some sales in person at small local markets, etc. However, in consideration of the possibility for consignment and such, perhaps the ingredients should go back onto the label. Decisions, decisions. Again, I thank you very much for your honest feedback.

 

[artemis]

Upon public release I expect to mostly sell online with a some sales in person at small local markets, etc. However, in consideration of the possibility for consignment and such, perhaps the ingredients should go back onto the label. Decisions, decisions. Again, I thank you very much for your honest feedback.

I think it should be on the label whether you sell online or not. I'm not going to remember which ingredients you listed on your website bafter I buy your soap. And, what if I give a bar away? The giftee may want to know what's in it.

Also, I like the ampersand.

 

[SeattleMartin]

If you want your labels to be sale ready earlier rather than later, here are some things you need to change in order to meet the US FDA & FTC labeling requirements:

Net weight (not approx. weight)
Ingredients list (optional if not a cosmetic, but see links below)
Business/Responsible party address (see links below)

https://www.mariegale.com/quick-labeling-faq/
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rul...eform-proceedings/fair-packaging-labeling-act

Net weight... Approximate Net Weight? Do you have an exact source on that please? I ask because I am still feeling like I am struggling with this. According to this:
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrie...rue&n=pt16.1.500&r=PART&ty=HTML#se16.1.500_17

§500.9 Units of weight or mass, how expressed.
(a) The term net weight or net mass may be used in stating the net quantity of contents in terms of weight or mass. However, where the term “net weight” or “net mass” is not used, the quantity of contents shall always disclose the net quantity of contents.

I don't even need to use "net weight" but just simply state the weight? And it says "may use" rather than "must use" and I see nothing about using other forms of expression, especially in terms of approximation being either allowed or disallowed?
These are hand cut, hewn by my own self if you will. The weight varies a bit from bar to bar. So I suppose I could weigh every single bar and adjust label or product?
And in the end, I will likely be getting a multi-bar cutter to help ensure even weight across bars from a given batch. But even then, what if all but one weigh 4oz and one weighs 3.9?
Honestly I really would love to understand this better because I sincerely do not intend to mislead anyone and really do want to do this right.

It's a soap, not a cosmetic, and I believe I have avoided any such claims. Or maybe you see something on the label that I missed in that regard? Regardless I am still debating on listing ingredients online only or adding it back to the packaging. Decisions, ugh.

The address would be listed online in this case, but as you can see there is obviously city and zip for a minimum. At the 5:35 mark https://www.soapguild.org/how-to/legal-compliance/how-to-properly-label-soap.php Granted, I am also considering the caveat she mentions.

In closing, thank you so very much for taking the time to give me your feedback. I still have so many things to think over.

I think it should be on the label whether you sell online or not. I'm not going to remember which ingredients you listed on your website bafter I buy your soap. And, what if I give a bar away? The giftee may want to know what's in it.

I know... it's killin' me. LOL I think I may just replace the whole back blurb with ingredients. (this is where i go vehemently curse the labeling process in private.)

 

[DWinMadison]

#1, I love it. IF I were to be critical because you asked, I’d knock down the font size on your weight...maybe go with something sans sherif . Also, I’d knock your logo down just a hair so it doesn’t crowd “Everyday.” Now, forget everything I said. It’s perfect, and I know nothing.

 

[SeattleMartin]

#1, I love it. IF I were to be critical because you asked, I’d knock down the font size on your weight...maybe go with something sans sherif . Also, I’d knock your logo down just a hair so it doesn’t crowd “Everyday.” Now, forget everything I said. It’s perfect, and I know nothing.

You're feedback is as invaluable as all others! Also, I tend to love your sense of humor.
I actually agree with making the logo a little smaller. I think I am going to remove some of the whitespace from inside the logo itsself as well. Tighten it up a bit.
I was playing with some sans serif typefaces actually but they felt a little difficult on the eye as compared to serif. Just me, of course, but it also seemed to validate a design guideline I was given many, many, many moons ago
As for the weight, the typeface I chose for the logo was done due to it's inherent weight. I am thinking I may use Times New Roman for all the other serif print. I'm definitely not married to a script font as a soap title choice, but it seemed to work for this particular idea. I was thinking about maybe using different typefaces for different soap names? What do you think?
Thanks for being critical and feel free to apply as much critique as you like.

Also, I like the ampersand.

Thanks. I think I am going to drop it from the tagline but leave it in the logo.
p.s. I recognized that location of yours, but I couldn't quite put my thumb on the reference. I got mad at myself when I looked it up and realized it was the exact location I thought it was. But still, how could I have forgotten that it's from THE guide? I am so ashamed.

 

[Lin19687]

Net weight (not approx. weight)
As stated above and in other posts, also listed in the US rules

 

[penelopejane]

I personally think the label is too busy. There are also too many different fonts for me.

Weigh 10 of your soaps (once you have settled on your mold and soap thickness) and get a minimum weight. You can then put the lightest weight on your label. The weight of the soap after cure should not be less than the weight on the label but it can be more.

Might as well start off as you mean to continue with a legal, professional label. Keep on tweaking, you will get there.

I do not buy a soap unless it has a list of the ingredients on the wrapping.

 

[dixiedragon]

I like it. The only part I might change is deleting the part where it says "artisan bath @ body". I really like the rest of the layout. Easy to read, all relevant info. Not a lot of junk. Looks like where it says "plain & mild" you might put your scent name?

 

[earlene]

Net weight... Approximate Net Weight? Do you have an exact source on that please? I ask because I am still feeling like I am struggling with this. According to this:
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrie...rue&n=pt16.1.500&r=PART&ty=HTML#se16.1.500_17

I don't even need to use "net weight" but just simply state the weight? And it says "may use" rather than "must use" and I see nothing about using other forms of expression, especially in terms of approximation being either allowed or disallowed?
These are hand cut, hewn by my own self if you will. The weight varies a bit from bar to bar. So I suppose I could weigh every single bar and adjust label or product?
And in the end, I will likely be getting a multi-bar cutter to help ensure even weight across bars from a given batch. But even then, what if all but one weigh 4oz and one weighs 3.9?
Honestly I really would love to understand this better because I sincerely do not intend to mislead anyone and really do want to do this right.

It's a soap, not a cosmetic, and I believe I have avoided any such claims. Or maybe you see something on the label that I missed in that regard? Regardless I am still debating on listing ingredients online only or adding it back to the packaging. Decisions, ugh.

The address would be listed online in this case, but as you can see there is obviously city and zip for a minimum. At the 5:35 mark https://www.soapguild.org/how-to/legal-compliance/how-to-properly-label-soap.php Granted, I am also considering the caveat she mentions.

In closing, thank you so very much for taking the time to give me your feedback. I still have so many things to think over.


I know... it's killin' me. LOL I think I may just replace the whole back blurb with ingredients. (this is where i go vehemently curse the labeling process in private.)

The references were in my previous post, but it was extensive reading with additional links within those references.

However, regarding the net weight part of the discussion, the FTC regulations clearly states:
Quote:
§500.7 Net quantity of contents, method of expression.
The net quantity of contents shall be expressed in terms of weight or mass, measure, numerical count, or a combination of numerical count and weight or mass, size, or measure so as to give accurate information regarding the net quantity of contents thereof, and thereby facilitate value comparisons by consumers. The net quantity of contents statement shall be in terms of fluid measure if the commodity is liquid, or in terms of weight or mass if the commodity is solid, semi-solid, or viscous, or a mixture of solid and liquid. If there is a firmly established general consumer usage and trade custom of declaring the contents of a liquid by weight or mass, or a solid, semi-solid, or viscous product by fluid measure, numerical count, and/or size, or (as in the case of lawn and plant care products) by cubic measure, it may be used, when such declaration provides sufficient information to facilitate value comparisons by consumers. The declaration may appear in more than one line of print or type.
End Quote.

Shall be is the same as must in federal regulation terminology.
So yes, you do need to include Net Weight for bar soap. Just because it doesn't say you can't use the word approximate, you aren't supposed to use approximate. It should be the net weight (or final weight) at the time of receipt by the consumer. In reality, it can weigh more than the stated net weight, but not less than the stated net wt. The reason behind that is fairly obvious: the consumer will likely feel they got a bargain if they got more than they paid for, but will feel cheated if they get less than they paid for.


Regarding if it should meet the labeling requirement for soap or a cosmetic or a drug:

Could be regulated as a drug or a cosmetic? I can't say from that label, since you don't include ingredients. You obviously are making no claims that it is a cosmetic or a drug, so that should be fine if you don't list ingredients. But many people will not buy soap that doesn't list ingredients. I won't, either.

If it is soap only and not a cosmetic or a drug (this depends on your claims about the soap AND people's common perceptions of certain ingredients AND anything you include on the label that would lead the customer to believe it would be cosmetic or a medicinal), then the rules about what you put on the label differs.

One example of how public perception can influence how a soap might fall into a cosmetic or drug category: Historically, pine tar is used medicinally and many people perceive pine tar soap as at the very least 'soothing', and often much more medicinal than that. There is a long history of pine tar as a medicinal application for skin problems, therefore, if a soaper uses pine tar in their soap, they really should follow all the required labeling requirements for a drug, even if the soaper clearly states on the label that it is soap and only for cleaning. Why? Because the buyer is more likely than not, buying the soap for it's perceived medicinal application. One can argue that it is not necessary if you state 'for cleaning only', but why not just follow the labeling requirements for a drug and rest easy? It's not that hard to meet those requirements.

How can a soap be a cosmetic? If it is stated on the label that it moisturizes, then it is regulated as a cosmetic and the appropriate labeling is required. There are other examples, but I just wanted to list a one from each category.

 

[MGM]

I like the "we love you"....it's quirky and memorable. Has anyone actually READ THE LABEL of Dr Bronner's soap? I swear it's that weirdness that keeps me buying the stuff....

 

[dixiedragon]

I like the "we love you"....it's quirky and memorable. Has anyone actually READ THE LABEL of Dr Bronner's soap? I swear it's that weirdness that keeps me buying the stuff....

I agree! I find it funny.

 

[Andrew]

The ingredients have to be on the label. I would also list the scent on the front and leave a space for a UPC code.

 

[snappyllama]

If I didn't know anything about homemade soap, the line about "Seriously. Do not, for any reason, put this in someone's mouth" would make me think it was possibly dangerous/poisonous. I wouldn't buy it - especially if I had kids or pets at home. They stick everything in their mouths.

I get that you are alluding to washing your mouth out with soap... maybe something like "Meant for washing your body, not your mouth"?

 

[Steven]

I agree with a few of the comments above

1) The spacing of Everyday and the logo seems a bit crowded. Not terribly important but with that additional white space on the left side of the logo it makes the "everyday" part feel like it's encroaching.
2) I think the "I love you" part is cute and will probably be just fine in Seattle
3) The "Seriously..." message, while funny to me could be interpreted wrong. I agree with snappyllama and my suggestion - Meant for washing your body, not your potty mouth

 

[Obsidian]

I'm sorry but I don't care for it at all. No ingredient list and the plain and mild is confusing as there is obviously something in it adding color. To me, plain is unscented and uncolored. Also, what is mild to you might be harsh to me, hence why ingredients are important.

As far as to your statement, that alone turns me off. I don't know if you are really that nice or if its just a marketing ploy but I tend to be skeptical and would think its marketing. It also sounds a bit stuck up, like your personal mission is going to make it good soap. Unless you can get your soap legally certified USDA organic, leave that off.

Guess in the end, I want less about you and more soap info.

I like the logo but would suggest the everyday font be the same as everything else. No reason to make some words fancier, just make them easy to read. I like the & but I would choose a different font to it too so its a bit more recognizable.

 

[atiz]

I actually like it a lot.

Regarding ingredients: I'm afraid the audience here might be a bit biased. At least, I don't think I had ever looked at any cosmetic ingredients (including soap) before I started making soap. Yes, now I would look at it, but not sure how much of your target will really care. (Allergies etc. is a different matter.)

I agree with the others that the front is *almost* too crowded, although for me it does not quite cross that line. I would probably have at most two different fonts on the front.
Personally I really absolutely totally dislike Times New Roman, so would not typeset my label with it, but that is just a personal preference.
I think overall it looks really nice. And I don't mind the more personal messages on it; they are cute.