Why is it my Soap didn't have much bubble or lather?What's wrong?

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Ronzkie26

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Why is it my Soap didn't have much bubble or lather?What's wrong?

Hi! I made a 4 kinds of soap.. now i tested the 3 because its reach 4 days to 1 week. Now why is it that the 3 Soap didn't have much bubble when i tried it on my skin?No itchy or irritant but the problem is it didn't have bubbles when i used.. maybe it needed more time to cure or few more weeks to make it "lather"?anyway here's my recipe..

1st and 2nd batch

Weight of Oil 500g

1. Coconut Oil - 400g (90%)
2. Castor Oil - 50g (10%)


3rd Batch

Weight of Oil 500g

1. Coconut Oil - 250g (50%)
2. Palm Oil - 200g (40%)
3. Castor Oil - 50g (10%)

But i used chemicals

1. CDEA - 5g (1%)
2. Sodium Silicate - 5g (1%)
3. Benzalkonium Chloride - 2.5g (0.5%)

So do you think what's wrong with it? They say CDEA will add more bubble.. should i increase to 2.5% or 12.5g?or should i wait few more weeks to test again the soap?Thanks in advance guys.. :wink:
 
your 1st recipe didn't add up to 500 gr?

you can't compare handmade soap to commercially made ones that are loaded with detergents. the lather/bubbles are, of course, going to be different. that said, you need to give your soap a good cure (4 weeks minimal). a test at 1 week old is not reliable.

both your recipes are loaded with coconut and castor, they shouldn't have a problem with lather/bubbles.

i have a feeling you're just still not used with the lather a handmade soap produces.
 
The longer your soap cures, the better the lather will be. Give your soap a four week cure and see how good the lather is. Why did you add CDEA,
Sodium Silicate, and Benzalkonium Chloride? I don't think any of these ingredients will be especially great in homemade soap. If you want more bubbles, add a little sugar to the water and dissolve it, then add the lye. If you want a faster evaporation rate, add 1 tsp table salt ppo to the water and dissolve before adding the lye. As far as antisecptic value, I don't think Benzalkonium Chloride is needed, if you give your hands or body a good lathering and rinse well.
 
your 1st recipe didn't add up to 500 gr?

you can't compare handmade soap to commercially made ones that are loaded with detergents. the lather/bubbles are, of course, going to be different. that said, you need to give your soap a good cure (4 weeks minimal). a test at 1 week old is not reliable.

both your recipes are loaded with coconut and castor, they shouldn't have a problem with lather/bubbles.

i have a feeling you're just still not used with the lather a handmade soap produces.

Yup. im making a commercial soap coz i want to have business.. i made 4 kinds of soap the 2 w/o chemical and other 2 it has.. but they say CDEA is foam booster.. so im not quite familiar on this but you suggest that i need atleast 4 weeks. ok i give a try.. i hope it would be lather on that date coz that's all i wait so that i may start mass production of papaya soap.

The longer your soap cures, the better the lather will be. Give your soap a four week cure and see how good the lather is. Why did you add CDEA,
Sodium Silicate, and Benzalkonium Chloride? I don't think any of these ingredients will be especially great in homemade soap. If you want more bubbles, add a little sugar to the water and dissolve it, then add the lye. If you want a faster evaporation rate, add 1 tsp table salt ppo to the water and dissolve before adding the lye. As far as antisecptic value, I don't think Benzalkonium Chloride is needed, if you give your hands or body a good lathering and rinse well.

they say CDEA is foam booster then Sodium Silicate is to more harden the bar soap then Benzalkonium Chloride is an anti-bac like the safeguard soap.. anyway can you give me specific amount of sugar to add on water??then about faster evaporation rate.. what do you mean on this "add 1 tsp table salt ppo" what is ppo? if i do that two procedure you suggest?is it possible?adding water sugar and salt then dissolve into water before mixing with the lye??

Thanks for your reply guys.. good evening.
 
it is possible to add both sugar and salt, just make sure it dissolves well before adding lye. ppo means per pound of oils :)
I use 3-5% of sugar based on my oil weight (for example if my oils weigh 1000g, I add from 30 to 50g of sugar to my water). I don't use salt at all, but I have seen bloggers using 2% of salt.
Good luck!
 
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I still don't understand why you are adding extra chemicals that aren't needed in handmade soap. You can get a nice lathering hard bar with the oils you are using. I also think you are rushing things and should not be even thinking of selling your product until you have had way more experience and know what you are doing. PPO means per pound of oils. You need to cure your soap at least 4 weeks and the longer the cure the better the soap. You have been given excellent advice and don't seem to be taking it in.
 
Your soap is barely a week old now - let it cure for AT LEAST 4 weeks. It will be better at 4 weeks and much better after 6-8 weeks.

I get the feeling that since the commercial companies add those chemicals, and you wish to sell commercially, you think you should use those chemicals. Or that somehow the soap is better with those chemicals. Neither one of those is true.
 
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Ron, you don't need the cdea to make a 'commercial' bar. Remember, you're trying to provide a better bar, not the same cheap crap being spewed out by everyone else. Provide better quality and you will set yourself apart and build your market with soap that stands out from the competition.

Yes, remember that I told you it would need to cure for at least 4 weeks, this is NOT just to dry it out, but also so that the soap's molecular structure settles down into the right pattern which creates a harder longer-lasting bar, but also is less harsh and BETTER LATHER! Uncured soap just does not lather well, and no amount of chemical crap is going to solve that, you just have to wait it out. I have an awesome soap made with carrot puree, and it took about 6 weeks before suddenly I had tons of glorious lather.

SO, you have your first batches made. You wrote down the exact recipe you used for each one, correct? Then on each batch's recipe, attach a fresh sheet of paper, and record the date you made that batch. Write down your method used. Write down anything you remember about making it -- how long it took to trace, did it heat up? Any trouble with it? Did it overheat in the mold? Change colors? Smell funny? Anything you might want to do different next time you make it.

Then, for each recipe, you will write down how long it took to be able to unmold and cut. Did it cut smoothly? Crack? Crumble or smush? Any air-pockets or lye or oil or fragrance pockets inside? Then while you have it set aside for curing, set one bar aside for testing later. With this bar, you will use half, and store half to check for signs of rancidity or other issues that can take a few months to show.
For the half-bar you will be testing, you'll test this pretty much right away, to get that curiosity out of the way, because we soapers are all too impatient to wait LOL!

Then you'll make notes on that on your batch sheet. Again at 1-2weeks, again at 4-5wks. Some soap my need 8wks or more, but I think yours should be ok at 4-5wks.

How to test -- wet hands thoroughly with warm water. Wet soap thoroughly also. The younger the soap, the more water you may need to get the lather started. Rub the soap over and over about 10x's and set aside. Add a tad more water to your hand and lather up!

What you want to note -- lather, of course, big fluffy bubbles? Little fluffy bubbles? Foamy bubbles? Creamy lotion bubbles? This can change a lot sometimes over the cure period! Ok, then think about how it feels? Squeaky clean? Rich and luxurious? Does it rinse clean? Leave a residue ? Feel oily? Dry your hands gently. If there was a residue feeling, is it still there? Or do your hands now feel just clean without tightness or dryness? Or do they feel dry or tight? Or like you need to use lotion? Also note - texture. Was it smooth? Creamy? Scrubby? Slimy? Sticky? And scent -- before use, strength ? During use, and after rinsing. In general, it should smell nice to use, but not leave a ton of scent stuck to your skin. After several uses, does the scent fade or change? Lastly, color. What color did it start out? How did it change as it cured? How did it change with use? Did it fade? Get darker? Do something unexpected?

Ok, so now you have a few things to do during the soap's cure time. The next thing to do is make more soap. Keep with the small batches, avoid the chemicals, play with using sugar and salt, and varying amounts of your puree. Keep notes on each variation, so if you get something amazing, you know how to duplicate it, and if you get something so-so, you know what NOT to do.

Keeping detailed batch notes about each recipe, especially now, while you're learning, will help you build a successful business, because you will become very familiar with how each thing affects the outcome and how little details can make a big difference!

Once you are making the soap, taking your notes, checking previous soaps, and planning details of recipes, and planning any labels, brochures, etc, as well as making sure you're following any local laws for selling it. It wouldn't do, to make lots of wonderful soap, and get in trouble for not following the sales laws!!!
 
Ron, you don't need the cdea to make a 'commercial' bar. Remember, you're trying to provide a better bar, not the same cheap crap being spewed out by everyone else. Provide better quality and you will set yourself apart and build your market with soap that stands out from the competition.

Yes, remember that I told you it would need to cure for at least 4 weeks, this is NOT just to dry it out, but also so that the soap's molecular structure settles down into the right pattern which creates a harder longer-lasting bar, but also is less harsh and BETTER LATHER! Uncured soap just does not lather well, and no amount of chemical crap is going to solve that, you just have to wait it out. I have an awesome soap made with carrot puree, and it took about 6 weeks before suddenly I had tons of glorious lather.

SO, you have your first batches made. You wrote down the exact recipe you used for each one, correct? Then on each batch's recipe, attach a fresh sheet of paper, and record the date you made that batch. Write down your method used. Write down anything you remember about making it -- how long it took to trace, did it heat up? Any trouble with it? Did it overheat in the mold? Change colors? Smell funny? Anything you might want to do different next time you make it.

Then, for each recipe, you will write down how long it took to be able to unmold and cut. Did it cut smoothly? Crack? Crumble or smush? Any air-pockets or lye or oil or fragrance pockets inside? Then while you have it set aside for curing, set one bar aside for testing later. With this bar, you will use half, and store half to check for signs of rancidity or other issues that can take a few months to show.
For the half-bar you will be testing, you'll test this pretty much right away, to get that curiosity out of the way, because we soapers are all too impatient to wait LOL!

Then you'll make notes on that on your batch sheet. Again at 1-2weeks, again at 4-5wks. Some soap my need 8wks or more, but I think yours should be ok at 4-5wks.

How to test -- wet hands thoroughly with warm water. Wet soap thoroughly also. The younger the soap, the more water you may need to get the lather started. Rub the soap over and over about 10x's and set aside. Add a tad more water to your hand and lather up!

What you want to note -- lather, of course, big fluffy bubbles? Little fluffy bubbles? Foamy bubbles? Creamy lotion bubbles? This can change a lot sometimes over the cure period! Ok, then think about how it feels? Squeaky clean? Rich and luxurious? Does it rinse clean? Leave a residue ? Feel oily? Dry your hands gently. If there was a residue feeling, is it still there? Or do your hands now feel just clean without tightness or dryness? Or do they feel dry or tight? Or like you need to use lotion? Also note - texture. Was it smooth? Creamy? Scrubby? Slimy? Sticky? And scent -- before use, strength ? During use, and after rinsing. In general, it should smell nice to use, but not leave a ton of scent stuck to your skin. After several uses, does the scent fade or change? Lastly, color. What color did it start out? How did it change as it cured? How did it change with use? Did it fade? Get darker? Do something unexpected?

Ok, so now you have a few things to do during the soap's cure time. The next thing to do is make more soap. Keep with the small batches, avoid the chemicals, play with using sugar and salt, and varying amounts of your puree. Keep notes on each variation, so if you get something amazing, you know how to duplicate it, and if you get something so-so, you know what NOT to do.

Keeping detailed batch notes about each recipe, especially now, while you're learning, will help you build a successful business, because you will become very familiar with how each thing affects the outcome and how little details can make a big difference!

Once you are making the soap, taking your notes, checking previous soaps, and planning details of recipes, and planning any labels, brochures, etc, as well as making sure you're following any local laws for selling it. It wouldn't do, to make lots of wonderful soap, and get in trouble for not following the sales laws!!!

Ok thanks everyone for respy on my thread esp. to mam graceyworks.

Mam grace, about curing i put my batches of soap into the side of our wall which is thin not double plywood. so the heat would directly hit the wall. Does it affect the quality of my soap if the environment is hot?because right now our temp goes to 26-34 degree Celsius which is very hot.. should i move to the other place which is not hot??what do u suggest mam?

Yes i wrote down all my recipes, procedure and also i put a date when i made the soap and when it would take 4 weeks so it would meet the standard curing process. About my method or procedure mam here it is..

First i heated the 450g of Oil which is 250 Coco Oil and 200 Palm Oil. i heated first because the lye cold down first than Oil. then after that i mix the Lye to water which i the water on half because of papaya puree. then measured the temperature of LYE and OIL so that both would meet into same ideal temperature which is 40C or 100F. Now i put the Oil into Lye the stir up 2 mins w/ hand mixer then stir-up with wooden stick. after that i put the Castor Oil 50g then Papaya Puree with Colorant already.. then stir again w/ wood stick or hand mixer. is this ok mam?

about the appearance i didn't notice something wrong coz before we mix the papaya puree into Lye solution and Oil. we standby and point the Electric fan into 3rd Mode (Fastest) then slowly put the papaya Puree because you told me about the overheating and thank god i haven't encountered it. Now about tracing, it didn't make me exhausted because it didn't take much long, i guess atleast 5 minutes trace appeared.

But after i put it into mold i notice there's some papaya puree didn't mix well maybe because i didn't blend it enough the papaya puree. so if i use juicer maybe this won't happen mam again?do u think that papaya puree not blended will is the cause why there's some kind of pulp?I'll post the pic later mam so you can see.

about the quality of the soap. i tested out the 1st and 2nd batch my skin make it very dry because of 90% Coco Oil and 10% Castor Oil. but the 3rd batch which is 50% Coco Oil and 40% Palm Oil and 10% Castor Oil it doesn't made my skin dry.. look's good but problem is it didn't much bubble or lather that i expected. maybe because it just 1 week so i would try in 4weeks again.

About how to increase lather mam using Sugar for lather and Salt to increase evaporate. i found this sites.. it has 3 methods but i choose the 1st.. so
Method #1
When making your lye-water solution, add the sugar to your water before you add your lye to the water. Make sure it's completely dissolved before adding the lye. (You can also add salt to the water at this point too.) This is the easiest method, though sometimes the heat of the lye solution will begin to caramelize the sugar a bit, and turn the sugar water a bit of a beige color. Not quite like the orange color you get with goat's milk soap, but for the same reason. This is just an aesthetic consideration. It doesn't affect the soap at all.

Source: http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/tipstricks/qt/qtsugar.htm
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Yes, you can increase lather some using sugar, but you already have a good bit of sugar in there from the Papaya puree. It just needs cure time.

A lot of things happen during cure to make soap become soap. Water evaporates, ph becomes milder, lather increases, molecules settle into a tighter formation -- a LOT going on the first 4 weeks!

But there's plenty you need to be doing while waiting for that soap to cure. Keep up your research! You need to be educating yourself on how different oils bring different properties to the soap. What ingredients might be good in it. Why is some soap better than others? What will make yours stand out? You need to educate yourself, like you have started doing, so that you can become an expert in what you are going to be doing. You need to be able to explain what is so great and special about your soap instead of the competition.

Plus, you need to be making more soap, of course! You'll get to a point where you will always have at least one batch that is finished curing and ready to go! By the time you finish pouring some batches of soap for your 4th week, your 1st week will be about ready. Depending on the recipe, of course. Which is one big reason to keep track of each recipe, and make notes for each batch of that recipe. Will help you figure out the ideal minimum cure time for that recipe of soap
 
about the quality of the soap. i tested out the 1st and 2nd batch my skin make it very dry because of 90% Coco Oil and 10% Castor Oil. but the 3rd batch which is 50% Coco Oil and 40% Palm Oil and 10% Castor Oil it doesn't made my skin dry.. look's good but problem is it didn't much bubble or lather that i expected. maybe because it just 1 week so i would try in 4weeks again

You didn't say much about the lye discount that you are using. High CO soaps usually need a higher lye discount to stop them being too drying.

And for curing, you want air to be able to flow around the soaps as much as possible.
 
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