Why did my batter thicken quickly? (not false trace!)

[LilianNoir]

Hello friends! It's been a while. Life has made it difficult to make soap but I'm back!
I made my 4th batch of cold process ever yesterday and it set up/thickened VERY quickly. I'm hoping you knowledgeable folk can help me figure out what happened.
I used a recipe I've used before - the "shea supreme" recipe from Anne Watson. I've attached the soap calc recipe to that here. Although now that I think on it, that one thickened up a bit quicker than I though it would but at the time I thought that was because I was new and used the stick blender too much(another soap making friend tells me I didn't really)

I made one modification - reducing coconut by 10% and adding in castor oil at 10%. I kept the lye concentration (as a ratio) the same as the original.
I also wound up adding the lye at temperature differential of 40 degrees F.
(Lye was at 86F, oils 126F)
I...didn't originally intend to that. It was a weird spur of the moment decision that was half impatience (there were some minor things that didn't go as planned and I was annoyed) and half curiosity (what happens if I do this?)

When I added the lye and stick blended, on the lowest setting for that blender, it thickened almost immediately upon emulsification. It wasn't a false trace and the soap set up nicely (and it's already passed a preliminary zap test). But it wasn't even a minute, maybe a minute? of blending for to achieve a pudding like consistency.

I spoke with a friend who's been making soap for several years and she thinks the water discount was too high.
Now I didn't change the water/lye ratio from the original. Both the original and my modification have a lye concentration of about 34%, My understanding is this on the higher end but not super high.

So what I'm asking is, what do you think contributed to the acceleration?
Was the lower water concentration/water discount, the fact that I added lye at a 40degree difference, or the fact that I use a high percentage of shea, or all three?

I wasn't even able to add colorants to this. I like the original recipe and if this one works out I can see myself using this recipe more often. Would adding more water/liquid help to keep it fluid longer?

Thanks!

PS - both recipes are attached as soap calc recipes. But if it's easier I can type them out.

This is the finished soap. I tried to do purple mica oil swirls on the top and THAT didn't work either. I think because 1. my mica was too "thin" (too much oil) and 2. the soap was too thick.

 

[moodymama]

I think the shea causes acceleration because of the stearic acid. That might be why.

 

[cmzaha]

While Shea will contribute to faster trace the stearic value is not that high, I do not think it is your biggest culprit. My 57% shea bars will stay workable long enough to do at least 1 swirl and pour at least 16 bars in single cavity molds. Castor accelerates trace and your 10% castor really does not contribute enough to deal with the acceleration, cut it to 3-5% and you should notice a difference. I would also cut the CO to no higher than 20% and soap with cooler oils. 126º F is pretty warm for oils and can cause acceleration. Think HP. I would not soap it over 110ºF. For my Shea recipe, I use a 30% Lye Concentration in place of my normal 33%. Do you have any other oil besides OO you can use to replace some of the CO and Castor such as Lard, Safflower, HO Sunflower, Avocado, Sweet Almond? You can definitely turn this into a nice recipe that is easier to work with. If not opposed to lard it would really slow down the trace time.

 

[LilianNoir]

While Shea will contribute to faster trace the stearic value is not that high, I do not think it is your biggest culprit. My 57% shea bars will stay workable long enough to do at least 1 swirl and pour at least 16 bars in single cavity molds. Castor accelerates trace and your 10% castor really does not contribute enough to deal with the acceleration, cut it to 3-5% and you should notice a difference. I would also cut the CO to no higher than 20% and soap with cooler oils. 126º F is pretty warm for oils and can cause acceleration. Think HP. I would not soap it over 110ºF. For my Shea recipe, I use a 30% Lye Concentration in place of my normal 33%. Do you have any other oil besides OO you can use to replace some of the CO and Castor such as Lard, Safflower, HO Sunflower, Avocado, Sweet Almond? You can definitely turn this into a nice recipe that is easier to work with. If not opposed to lard it would really slow down the trace time.

Thanks for all that great input! I do think it's a combination of things. I really don't want to work with lard. While I personally am not opposed to it, I do make soap for friends that are vegan, and based on the performance of the original recipe I'd like this be a consistent "go to" for me.

I did have the thought to do a variant with 20% coconut, 30% olive, 30% shea, 10% castor, 10% avocado - based on other recipes I've seen, but wasn't exactly sure how avocado would change things.

I'm thinking of trying the same exact recipe (coconut 25, olive 35 , shea 30, castor 10) again but keeping oils at 100F to see how that works. And then maybe try it again with oils at 100F AND increasing water a bit.
(Scientific method and all that).

 

[cmzaha]

Can I ask what you are trying to accomplish with 10% Castor? Castor does not add to bubbles or lather? It does help support lather even at 5%. But I can guarantee even a 2% difference will make a difference in acceleration in trace. I tested this with a slow trace recipe. Not being a fan of OO and high OO soaps, in my opinion taking a long time to cure, I find a combination of soft oils make a nicer soap.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I don’t have issues with castor, but also don’t use more than 5% if I use it at all. Did you use the same kind of Shea in both batches? I’ve made one of my high shea recipes back-to-back with refined vs. unrefined shea and had the recipe with the unrefined shea accelerate quickly while the refined shea did not. I believe unrefined shea can be high in unsaponifiables, which may affect trace. Overall though, my use of unrefined shea has been limited to 2 lbs total, and all from the same jar, so I’m not speaking from vast experience. I’ve used almost 10 lbs of refined shea to date, also all from the same lot, with no acceleration issues. If I was working with your recipe with refined shea, I would expect the CO to speed things up a bit (I stick to 20% or less) and for that reason, I would plan to have my batter at around 105F when I first mixed the oils and the lye together if I wanted to do a swirl. When I use refined shea, I start a little warmer. Lard aside, I’ve found that smallish changes in temperature (+10F) can make batter behave quite differently, but it’s always a balancing act because I like to keep shea, palm, tallow and soy wax warm to avoid stearic spots.

 

[atiz]

I also use castor sometimes at 10%, and in my experience it does moderately accelerate. So that may be a factor, plus the relatively warm temperature.

 

[LilianNoir]

Can I ask what you are trying to accomplish with 10% Castor? Castor does not add to bubbles or lather? It does help support lather even at 5%. But I can guarantee even a 2% difference will make a difference in acceleration in trace. I tested this with a slow trace recipe. Not being a fan of OO and high OO soaps, in my opinion taking a long time to cure, I find a combination of soft oils make a nicer soap.

I added the castor in part hoping to boost the conditioning a bit and to be honest, I had seen castor used in quite a few similar recipes, but also just to see what the effect was.
I'm still new to soaping and one of the things that interests me and with which I want to get a better handle on is the different properties of different oils. I know there are quite a few resources out there on this and while I'm definitely the "Researching" type(I think I read, researched, and took notes for 2 months? before making my first batch) I find that sometimes, even with notes, I get overwhelmed with all the information. I also remember best by doing. So I figure, let's add in this in and see what the difference is.

 

[cmzaha]

Most use Castor to help support lather. As for acceleration I know many think it makes no difference, although Atiz apparently has noticed a difference, I found during testing it does. At one time I was working to come up with a reliable slow trace recipe and even 2% difference in my castor oil made a difference. I know we have a member here that makes a high tallow with high castor soap that she says her family loves. I have not tried it yet but will someday so I do not know how the batter acts.

I know Mobjack worries a lot about stearic spots and must have issues with them, but I soap very cool, cooler than I suggest with all my recipes being on the higher side as far as palmitic and stearic, I gel my soaps and have no issues with stearic spots. I either soap with 40%+ Palm or Tallow with lard and or shea soaping as cool as 89ºF, which I really do not recommend unless you know your batter. Temperature can play a big part in how batter acts.

My biggest point here is it takes practice to learn your recipe which is hard to do in the beginning since a new soapmaker is usually trying to find the recipe they really like. When you do finally find what you really like keep good records on temps, lye concentration etc. If you decided to tweak the recipe make one tweak at a time and make notes.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I know Mobjack worries a lot about stearic spots and must have issues with them, but I soap very cool, cooler than I suggest with all my recipes being on the higher side as far as palmitic and stearic, I gel my soaps and have no issues with stearic spots. I either soap with 40%+ Palm or Tallow with lard and or shea soaping as cool as 89ºF, which I really do not recommend unless you know your batter. Temperature can play a big part in how batter acts.

Luckily I rarely have any issues with stearic spots now, but that’s only since I started working warmer. I wonder if the differences we experience have to do with batch size and lye concentration. The biggest batch size I make uses 1000 g of oil and I often use 300-500 g of oil. I have always used a fairly high lye concentration. I inched my way up from 33% to 35%, then 37% and I’m now using 40% in some test batches. I really have to work at it if I want small batches made with 37% lye concentration to gel and especially if I start below 90 F.

 

[cmzaha]

Luckily I rarely have any issues with stearic spots now, but that’s only since I started working warmer. I wonder if the differences we experience have to do with batch size and lye concentration. The biggest batch size I make uses 1000 g of oil and I often use 300-500 g of oil. I have always used a fairly high lye concentration. I inched my way up from 33% to 35%, then 37% and I’m now using 40% in some test batches. I really have to work at it if I want small batches made with 37% lye concentration to gel and especially if I start below 90 F.

Possibly, my batches are 1672 g of oil and I seldom soap with less. I force gel by covering in shallow crates set on an electric pad covered with a heat blanket. Unless I make a 100% OO soap I stick with 33% lye concentration or lower with my Palm recipe. Any higher of a concentration simply does not work for me. My larger batches probably heat up and hold the heat a bit faster and longer than yours, especially your 300-500 g batches with higher lye concentration. When I soap with oils at 90ºF my batter usually does not go over 120ºF and many times hangs out around 116ºF. So I do have to force gel. We all have to find what works for us.

 

[LilianNoir]

....

My biggest point here is it takes practice to learn your recipe which is hard to do in the beginning since a new soapmaker is usually trying to find the recipe they really like. When you do finally find what you really like keep good records on temps, lye concentration etc. If you decided to tweak the recipe make one tweak at a time and make notes.

This is all sound advice. And I needed to hear this again because.....
What's funny is I have a soap notebook where I record all of my batches and I have a science background. I know the importance of making singular changes to see results and yet.... well sometimes my enthusiasm and curiosity get the best of me. XD

It will be interesting to see how this batch turns out. If I like it, I think I'll try it again with lower temps(100F) and then again without the castor.