What do you think about this recipe?

[SoapBro]

i've heard good things about avocado oil/butter in soap and wanted to test it out, i want to make an all cocoa/avocado butter soap, what do you think about this simple 50/50 recipe? would it produce any lather? what properties would you suppose the final soap have?

 

[lsg]

I think you should add some palm, coconut and Castor oils. Even though your cleansing number is zero, the conditioning number is not high and you have zero for bubbly lather. I love bubbly lather so your recipe wouldn't work for me.

 

[Cindy2428]

1). Love the low cleansing number. 2). Very low bubbles based on the numbers. 3). I use avocado in most of my recipes and I like it 4). I love the cocoa butter - expensive, but I like it. 5). I would consider a healthy dose of sugar and castor if you want bubbles.

 

[SoapBro]

I think you should add some palm, coconut and Castor oils. Even though your cleansing number is zero, the conditioning number is not high and you have zero for bubbly lather. I love bubbly lather so your recipe wouldn't work for me.

i was thinking about maybe adding 5% castor to increase the lather, but i really want to avoid coconut/palm if i can, im actually trying to replicate tallow with vegetable oils and this combo is almost identical in its fatty acid number distribution as tallow.

im guessing this would be a hard bar, probably wont lather that great, but will it be mild and moisturizing to the skin? thats what im really aiming for..

 

[Cindy2428]

I think you will meet your mildness, conditioning goals with this recipe. Run some castor - I think you could probably go 8%. It just doesn't feel like soap without the bubbles.

 

[SoapBro]

I think you will meet your mildness, conditioning goals with this recipe. Run some castor - I think you could probably go 8%. It just doesn't feel like soap without the bubbles.

tell me about it, made some 100% tallow soap recently and while it was really mild and very nice on the skin its almost impossible to get any bubbles from this thing, imagine a very young castile soap but without the slime, just slippery with almost no bubbles.

 

[Cindy2428]

I'm a nut for coconut milk/coconut water. I'm still perfecting a vegetable oil soap and when I subbed out for a frozen 50 coco milk/50 coco water split, and it made a huge difference with 6.5% castor. The bubbles were incredible and my 50+ dry skin felt great.

 

[Obsidian]

I suggest a small batch until you know if you like it or not. I've found too much coco butter reduces lather and can make the soap draggy. I honestly think it will be a mediocre but expensive soap. ANy reason why you want to avoid coconut? Even a small amount will greatly improve your soap, as would lard.

 

[SoapBro]

I suggest a small batch until you know if you like it or not. I've found too much coco butter reduces lather and can make the soap draggy. I honestly think it will be a mediocre but expensive soap. ANy reason why you want to avoid coconut? Even a small amount will greatly improve your soap, as would lard.

i just fear it would become drying.. i think i'll just make a very small batch to test it out first, i'l report back with results.

 

[Obsidian]

Too much can be drying but in smaller amounts, its a good addition. I have very dry skin and coconut around 10% is good for me. I can sometimes use 20% but I have to use a low cleansing oil with it. One of my favorite recipes is 80% lard, 20% coconut with 8% SF.

 

[Dahila]

I have one soap with only 5% CO and it is not drying for sure, It is very gentle, anywhere above 10% of cocoa butter and it is draggy, I would not use soap without the bubbles or buy one like that. Save your Cocoa butter for scrubs and body butters. One day you will make them )

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

There is a very good reason why many soaps contain either CO, PKO or babassau and used right they really aren't drying at all.

A lot of people keep the total butters down below 30% for the reasons listed above.

 

[SoapBro]

Well i did it, i made a VERY small batch of 50/50 cocoa/avocado butter soap,
i added 1% sodium citrate and 1% sugar to help with lather.

the whole process was kinda weird, i only did 60g of oils so it would fit in a single small mold, because of that i couldn't use my stick blender so i used a battery powered milk frother, i soaped at a higher temp then usually since both my oils are solid at room temp, they traced fast even though the frother is not nearly as effective as a stick blender, i stuck the batch in the toaster oven to force gel, it gelled faster then any soap i've made before, probably because of the sugar,

i let it cool down and just an hour later once it cooled it was Rock Solid, i did a zap test and it doesn't even zap! just an hour after gel..

i waited 24 hours just in case an did a lather test, theres none..........
absolutely no lather, the soap (if you can even call it that) is not even slightly slippery and nothing comes off it when you used it, i've made a rock. :crazy:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

................
A lot of people keep the total butters down below 30% for the reasons listed above.

............ i've made a rock. :crazy:

I'll be honest - I didn't actually think it would be THAT bad!

 

[Obsidian]

My second soap ever made was high in coco butter, it was so hard it was brittle and it would actually stick to your skin. It lathered ok since I used coconut oil but it wasn't a very good soap. Now I never use more then 20% butter(s). I would rebatch and add in some fresh 100% coconut oil soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you were trying to replicate an all tallow soap, then I'd give the soap 6-12 months of cure and try the lather then. It still might not lather any better, but it's worth continuing the experiment since it's only one bar.

That said, I'd also add coconut. Even 10% CO will really help a lot with this type of recipe, especially with a longer cure. I made a 90% lard, 10% CO recipe a couple of years ago. Didn't lather much at first, but lathered beautifully a year later.

 

[lionprincess00]

I'll be honest - I didn't actually think it would be THAT bad!

I'll be honest, I feared it would be.
If it cures out several months, lather has the potential to return, a little.
7% superfat is going to inhibit lather some, on top of a full butter soap. Butters inhibit lather too.
Now. Honestly in 6 months it may make a creamier lather. I did an experiment with my tallow when I first started rendering, and an experiment with a salt soap using avocado puree (almost no lather that one and could knock someone out with it it was so hard!). Experiments are how we learn and teach others, so kudos for trying something different!
I'd recommend as a tweek
Keep butters near 50% (for this experiment), with cocoa lower and used just to harden, avocado butter to condition, 6% castor to stabilize what lather you do get, a lower sf, at least 3% to help boost the bubbles, some coconut and olive. Here's a simple example.
I don't think a high butter soap is as conditioning as you're thinking. To make an awesome silky conditioning soap, use lard, some avocado oil, castor and coconut that's very low, maybe olive or almond oil to round out the rest, and I think this'll be better than a high butter soap personally.

The screenshot of the entire thing was blurry when I tried to attach it. These are oils and their % with the quality numbers. Remember I'd recommend 3% or even 2% sf, just be careful on small batches measuring correctly.