Three Batches Seized Immediately

[serfmunke]

Hi All, I have a recipe it's about 80% saturated oils, mainly beef tallow. I've made it before, it was easy, perfectly behaved soap. I just made three batches, all seized upon adding the lye water. The last batch I threw into a pot and into the oven. It looks like it will be an OK HP batch. The first two batches I slopped into the mold, they set up nicely but when cut there are obviously chunks of harder, white soap. Some bars look cool like a titanium swirl but not all, some have blobs. First batch I soaped at 115 oils with cooler lye, probably 75. So I thought the cooler lye solidified the saturated oils. Nope, I soaped at 105 oils and lye, still, same problem. My next attempt, with a smaller batch size, my last thought would be to not discount the water.

Any thoughts? Ideas? Wisdom?
TIA!

 

[msunnerstood]

Did you use a fragrance you havent used before?

 

[serfmunke]

Did you use a fragrance you havent used before?

No. It seized immediately upon adding the lye. I could even see the bottom turn white while the top remained liquid and yellowish. My only thought are more water and cooler temps like around 85-90.

 

[DeeAnna]

Reacting that fast, assuming I'm understanding correctly, sounds like you might be soaping with fat that has a higher fatty acid content than you're used to. Is your tallow from a new batch or a new source or has it been a long-ish time since these naughty batches and the previous ones that behaved?

If this is the case, soaping cooler or using more water isn't going to help. Fatty acids react fast with lye, and there's no good way to slow that down. You may have to use a hot process method as the best way to use this fat.

Also soaping cooler will only get you into trouble with false trace if you have that much solid fat in the recipe.

 

[serfmunke]

Reacting that fast, assuming I'm understanding correctly, sounds like you might be soaping with fat that has a higher fatty acid content than you're used to. Is your tallow from a new batch or a new source or has it been a long-ish time since these naughty batches and the previous ones that behaved?

If this is the case, soaping cooler or using more water isn't going to help. Fatty acids react fast with lye, and there's no good way to slow that down. You may have to use a hot process method as the best way to use this fat.

Also soaping cooler will only get you into trouble with false trace if you have that much solid fat in the recipe.

Hmmmm, the tallow is from the same source but a different batch so that must be the reason because nothing rise changed between the successful batches and now.

I ended up using HP for the third failed batch. I still need to cut it and check it out.

I read a little about fatty acids from my soap making book, I'm gathering from that read and your reply that I should cut back the percentage of tallow and increase my unsaturated oils. Or I should use HP which I'm fine with.

Thank you for the advice! I was really struggling with this problem.

 

[Lin19687]

Maybe post the recipe. Could you not have the correct amounts of Lye or water or something ?
What Calc are you using

 

[Susie]

And have you tested your scale recently?

 

[Lin19687]

Oh yah, that might be it too !
I am wondering if you added too much lye ??

 

[DeeAnna]

...I'm gathering from that read and your reply that I should cut back the percentage of tallow and increase my unsaturated oils. Or I should use HP which I'm fine with....

If a high % of fatty acids is coming from the tallow, then reducing the tallow will lower the free fatty acid (FFA) in the overall blend of fats. That might slow things down a bit so a CP method will work better, but you'd have to try it to see.

Bear in mind the excess FFA could be coming from one of your other fats -- we've been focusing on the tallow as the culprit, but that's just an assumption. Measuring FFA can be done, but it's not a quick and simple test. If there's no hard numbers, we're doing a bit of a guessing game as to what will work.

...I am wondering if you added too much lye ??

Excess lye doesn't necessarily accelerate saponification, especially not the instant reaction that Serfmunke is describing. If you want to accelerate saponification, use a higher lye concentration (less water, in other words) and/or increase the temperature of the soap batter.

 

[serfmunke]

If a high % of fatty acids is coming from the tallow, then reducing the tallow will lower the free fatty acid (FFA) in the overall blend of fats. That might slow things down a bit so a CP method will work better, but you'd have to try it to see.

Bear in mind the excess FFA could be coming from one of your other fats -- we've been focusing on the tallow as the culprit, but that's just an assumption. Measuring FFA can be done, but it's not a quick and simple test. If there's no hard numbers, we're doing a bit of a guessing game as to what will work.



Excess lye doesn't necessarily accelerate saponification, especially not the instant reaction that Serfmunke is describing. If you want to accelerate saponification, use a higher lye concentration (less water, in other words) and/or increase the temperature of the soap batter.

OK, interesting. I'll check my scale, do small test batches and see what works. My seized batches were 60 oz and me being stubborn I kept thinking it wouldn't happen again, then it did. Some bars are salvageable the rest will be laundry soap!