Thoughts onthis recipe?

[james_Duprie]

OK, after my last experiment, I figure I'll bounce things here before I actually start cooking...So:
Palm oil 15%
Coconut oil 25%
sweet almond oil 25%
cocoa butter 15%
peanut oil 20%

Because this is an experiment, no additives or fragrance...

If my guesses are right, this should be a fairly hard soap, with decent cleansing and good moisturizing, but low bubbles.... Thoughts?

Thanks!
-J

 

[lenarenee]

Have you had a chance to read up on the qualities different oils bring to soap?

I would highly suggest you either greatly lower the peanut oil to no more than 10%, or ditch it altogether.

I'd also lower the almond oil to no more than 15%.

Do you have any olive oil, or high oleic versions of safflower, sunflower oils around?

Why do you want cocoa butter? If it's simply to add hardness, I'd leave it out for now and do something like this:

palm 45%
coconut 25% (lower if you have dry skin)
olive, high oleic safflower, sunflower or combination to fill in the remaining %
5% castor (if you have any left)

You're new to soaping, so starting with a simpler recipe will help you learn the physical process of soaping, plus get you started on learning about the oils.

I highly suggest you learn about oil qualities. Throwing oils in willy nilly with out that knowledge can lead to unpleasant surprises.

 

[james_Duprie]

Actually, I've been soaping for about 20 years now. Just branching out into other oils. Being a scientist, I like to experiment.....

Anyway,
I had the peanut oil in for hardening (I like hard soap) - why do you think its too much? Will it make it too hard, or is there something else? I've seen recommendations of up to 25%? To date, I've never had problems with my soaps going rancid (knock on wood), so I'm not too worried about that.

I had the sweet almond oil for skin care, and boost fatty acids.
Cocoa butter was also for skin care - I figured the vitamin E can't hurt, and from what I've read it can have a nice chocolate smell..

I could add some castor - I was kicking around the idea of cutting the peanut by 5% and replacing it with castor..... I figured that would boost the bubbles without making much difference for hardness.

I'm not trying to be dismissive - I'm just trying to understand your rationale. Can you give the reasons you think I should reduce or omit some of the fats?

thanks!
-James

 

[Susie]

I would definitely cap the coconut oil at 15%, and add the remainder to the palm oil. I would also limit the peanut oil to 10 or 15% at the most to decrease the likelihood of DOS. Add the remainder to the palm oil, also.

Do you have objections to lard or tallow? Because I can give you some awesome lard and/or tallow recipes.

 

[Steve85569]

ESTIMATED soap properties :
Range
Hardness: 40.4 29-54
Cleansing: 16.9 12-22
“Conditioning”: 54.2 44-69
Bubbly: 16.9 14-46
Creamy: 23.5 16-48
Lasting: 23.5

That's using the oils you suggested. You can get the same properties in a soap without using the high dollar almond oil. Peanut oil will go rancid fairly quickly which means that soap made with peanut oil *tends to* develop DOS when the fatty acids go bad.

Almond, olive , high oleic safflower and sunflower have very similar fatty acid profiles ( hint) which can save lots of money over time while you are supporting this soap making habit of ours.

What lenarenee said with just a little more detail as to why.

 

[james_Duprie]

I would definitely cap the coconut oil at 15%, and add the remainder to the palm oil. I would also limit the peanut oil to 10 or 15% at the most to decrease the likelihood of DOS. Add the remainder to the palm oil, also.

Do you have objections to lard or tallow? Because I can give you some awesome lard and/or tallow recipes.

Susie,
No objections to lard or tallow, just never used them. Haven't really looked into sources for them, and I'd rather avoid rendering my own (had to do that for some other things, and it stinks....). Someday I'll probably try, but right now, I'm trying to get familiar with a few more oils......
Thanks!

ESTIMATED soap properties :
Range
Hardness: 40.4 29-54
Cleansing: 16.9 12-22
“Conditioning”: 54.2 44-69
Bubbly: 16.9 14-46
Creamy: 23.5 16-48
Lasting: 23.5

That's using the oils you suggested. You can get the same properties in a soap without using the high dollar almond oil. Peanut oil will go rancid fairly quickly which means that soap made with peanut oil *tends to* develop DOS when the fatty acids go bad.

Almond, olive , high oleic safflower and sunflower have very similar fatty acid profiles ( hint) which can save lots of money over time while you are supporting this soap making habit of ours.

What lenarenee said with just a little more detail as to why.

Right now, cost isn't a worry - a friend who gave up on soaping gave me his stash of oils, so part of this is "use it up", as well as "figure it out".

It seems pretty unanimous that I should cut the peanut oil, so I'm thinking giving 5% to castor oil (I have a ton of it, and some more bubbles couldn't hurt).
Maybe give 10% of the coconut to the palm, and drop the almond to 15%,, Make it up with olive oil... That gives:

Palm oil 25%
Coconut oil 15%
Sweet almond 15%
Cocoa butter 15%
Peanut oil 5%
Olive oil 20%
Castor oil 5%

Thoughts again?

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[Obsidian]

Personally, I like peanut oil. Its not commonly used due to allergies and the possibility of increasing DOS. That being said, I made batch with 18% peanut over 2 years ago and my mom still has a bar in her shower that is not rancid at all.

I did decide to store the batch in the freezer once it was cured, just to keep it from going rancid. Its a lovely soap and I want to use it all. If you decide to try the peanut, just make sure its a small batch in case it does go bad and make sure to use refined peanut oil.

Your new recipe looks good but I would lower the coco butter to 10% and add it to the peanut.

 

[artemis]

I like peanut oil, too! But I don't sell, and we have no allergies in the family to worry about. I also like cocoa butter in small amounts. Maybe swap your peanut and cocoa butter numbers? Maybe make a small batch to try it and then another small batch to try a different combination and another! And another! I think I'm getting a little carried away...

 

[lenarenee]

Actually, I've been soaping for about 20 years now. Just branching out into other oils. Being a scientist, I like to experiment.....

Anyway,
I had the peanut oil in for hardening (I like hard soap) - why do you think its too much? Will it make it too hard, or is there something else? I've seen recommendations of up to 25%? To date, I've never had problems with my soaps going rancid (knock on wood), so I'm not too worried about that.

I had the sweet almond oil for skin care, and boost fatty acids.
Cocoa butter was also for skin care - I figured the vitamin E can't hurt, and from what I've read it can have a nice chocolate smell..

I could add some castor - I was kicking around the idea of cutting the peanut by 5% and replacing it with castor..... I figured that would boost the bubbles without making much difference for hardness.

I'm not trying to be dismissive - I'm just trying to understand your rationale. Can you give the reasons you think I should reduce or omit some of the fats?

thanks!
-James

Oh no James - You didn't come across as dismissive.

And since you are experienced with soap making, then go ahead with the first recipe you intended and see what the outcome is. You might like it.

When many of us here on the forum find a new soaping student, we often like to give them a basic recipe to use as a foundation, them tell them to make alternations with one oil at a time when the experiment.

You may be a lot more adventurous when you soap, which is absolutely fine.
I'm not - because I want a guaranteed success.

Now, peanut oil tends to be highly processed, makes a soft soap that usually dos's quickly.

Butters can reduce the amount of lather. 15% is higher than many recommend in soap, but not unreasonable. (I have little personal experience with cocoa butter, I use lard and don't have any benefit using butters with it)

You might find this interesting: http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com/2013/03/single-oil-soap-experiment-phase-one.html

You want a hard bar, and lots of big bubbles, plus good skin conditioning?
What is your best recipe so far? We'll see if we can help you tweak it (if you want to reduce the amount of experimenting you have to do)

Right now, cost isn't a worry - a friend who gave up on soaping gave me his stash of oils, so part of this is "use it up", as well as "figure it out".

It seems pretty unanimous that I should cut the peanut oil, so I'm thinking giving 5% to castor oil (I have a ton of it, and some more bubbles couldn't hurt).
Maybe give 10% of the coconut to the palm, and drop the almond to 15%,, Make it up with olive oil... That gives:

Palm oil 25%
Coconut oil 15%
Sweet almond 15%
Cocoa butter 15%
Peanut oil 5%
Olive oil 20%
Castor oil 5%

Thoughts again?

Thanks for all the feedback!

Just saw this. Much better balance in that recipe. Give it a go and we'd love to hear what you think about it in 4 weeks!!!

 

[Susie]

Once you run out of what you have already, lard is available at most grocery stores in the baking section. If you want larger amounts, Soaper's Choice sells it. My local Walmart and HEB have it cheaper, though.

http://www.soaperschoice.com/cgi-so...eb_store.cgi?query_price_low_range=0&cart_id=

You can buy Tallow mixed with Palm Oil in the form of Great Value Shortening from Walmart.

 

[james_Duprie]

Once you run out of what you have already, lard is available at most grocery stores in the baking section. If you want larger amounts, Soaper's Choice sells it. My local Walmart and HEB have it cheaper, though.

http://www.soaperschoice.com/cgi-so...eb_store.cgi?query_price_low_range=0&cart_id=

You can buy Tallow mixed with Palm Oil in the form of Great Value Shortening from Walmart.

OK, I'll tallow to my list of things to play with. I tend to avoid pork products, so I'll probably still stay away from lard...
Thanks again!

 

[BattleGnome]

OK, I'll tallow to my list of things to play with. I tend to avoid pork products, so I'll probably still stay away from lard...
Thanks again!

If you know any hunters you could always ask for some fat at the end of the season.

 

[james_Duprie]

If you know any hunters you could always ask for some fat at the end of the season.

What about goat tallow? I've been thinking about raising meat goats, and it seems ot me they SHOULD have some kidney (leaf) fat...... Anyone ever used it?

 

[Susie]

Is there a reason you avoid pork products? I ask because lard makes simply the most amazing soap. Tallow is nice, but wow, lard is just amazing. I am not asking for the reason, just if there is one. So this is a yes or no question.

Some people just have a knee-jerk reaction to the thought of using lard. No reason, just the thought squicks them.

 

[penelopejane]

Hi james
Palm/olive/coconut 30/30/30 plus castor 10% makes a rock hard bar.
Adding Almond which I use at 30% is lovely. Blind tests of my friends and family prefer it to Avocado.
Peanut has a 6-12 month shelf life so can lead to DOS.
I use shea butter at 10% which is similar to cocoa butter.
I also limit coconut to 10% because I personally find it's drying but it makes good bubbles and is hard.
I like your first recipe and would give it a whirl. But if it were me I'd substitute OO for the peanut in another soap and discover the difference.
I don't use lard or tallow and I substitute olive for palm but a friend uses 35% palm minimum in every soap and it makes a hard, bubbly very nice bar no matter what she adds.

 

[Dahila]

I do not like peanut oil, would not use it, drop palm to no more than 20% cocoa butter will inhibit the lather, so go down to 5% (it feels good at this percentage) lower almond and what left use for lotion. I would go a bit higher with OO. with that much cocoa and palm the trace will be so fast ........ small changes and it is going to be awesome soap

 

[james_Duprie]

Is there a reason you avoid pork products? I ask because lard makes simply the most amazing soap. Tallow is nice, but wow, lard is just amazing. I am not asking for the reason, just if there is one. So this is a yes or no question.

Some people just have a knee-jerk reaction to the thought of using lard. No reason, just the thought squicks them.

The whole Jewish/kosher thing....

 

[Susie]

OK, no problem. In that case, I would suggest tallow and palm oil in place of some of the lard, with a bit higher percentage of olive oil.