Practically every recipe I see contains olive oil. Is it really that necessary? I know technically soap can be made with out it but everyone seems to deem it as necessary as coconut oil to make a decent bar of soap. I know that olive oil is gentle to your skin and moisturizing but that can be said about alot of other oils as well. Can you tell if a bar of soap is made with out olive oil? Is there a drastic difference? Does anyone have a favorite recipe that does not include olive oil?
Soap with out Olive Oil
- Thread starter Kizzy
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The reason why olive oil is so common in soap recipes is that it has historically been the the easiest high oleic oil for soapers to find. It is a good source of oleic acid, which helps to make a mild, lathery soap when combined with stearic and palmitic acids and a dab of lauric and myristic acids.
Nowadays it is easier to find other high oleic fats including avocado, rice bran oil, high oleic sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola, etc. Probably the closest to olive are any of the HO oils, with rice bran a close second, and avocado running third. These fats may also have the advantage of not being adulterated or faked, which is a widespread problem with olive oil.
To substitute any of these fats for olive, just substitute them in any recipe that calls for olive. (Edit: Be sure to run the changed recipe through your favorite soap recipe calculator to make sure the NaOH weight is correct for the new blend of fats.)
You don't have to use any high oleic oil at all, if that's where you want to go. The classic "no olive" recipe is a lard soap, either 100% or with up to 20% coconut oil. If you look at the fatty acid profile for lard, you'll see it is a reasonably decent source of oleic acid. Not as good as the oils mentioned above, but not too bad.
Nowadays it is easier to find other high oleic fats including avocado, rice bran oil, high oleic sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola, etc. Probably the closest to olive are any of the HO oils, with rice bran a close second, and avocado running third. These fats may also have the advantage of not being adulterated or faked, which is a widespread problem with olive oil.
To substitute any of these fats for olive, just substitute them in any recipe that calls for olive. (Edit: Be sure to run the changed recipe through your favorite soap recipe calculator to make sure the NaOH weight is correct for the new blend of fats.)
You don't have to use any high oleic oil at all, if that's where you want to go. The classic "no olive" recipe is a lard soap, either 100% or with up to 20% coconut oil. If you look at the fatty acid profile for lard, you'll see it is a reasonably decent source of oleic acid. Not as good as the oils mentioned above, but not too bad.
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I'm a very new soaper, but here's my take on OO: the best soaps are "balanced" in terms of fatty acid content. You want enough of the long chain saturated fatty acids (stearic and palmitic mostly) to make a hard bar and enough of the unsaturated oleic/linoleic oils to keep the soap from being "waxy" on the skin. Lauric and myristic acids are more soluble, so make lathering up easier (although they also tend to dissolve and remove more skin oils, leading to dry skin in some people).
Standard rule of thumb is roughly 50/50% saturated/unsaturated fatty acids with enough lauric and myristic acids to make easy lather.
Olive oil is a traditional soaping oil, and Castile soaps (100% olive oil) and quite popular. However, you can replace olive oil with any other oil containing high levels of oleic acid -- HO safflower, HO sunflower are usually easy to find.
You can also make very nice soap without any OO at all -- 100% lard soaps are nice, Walmart's tallow based shortening produces an almost ideal "balanced" soap all by itself.
Lol, as usual, DeeAnna explained this better than I do while I was typing my reply!
Probably the best thing to do for yourself is to make small batches (500 g or so) with and without olive oil -- just substitute another oil for the olive oil and re-calculate with a soap calculator -- and see how you like them.
Standard rule of thumb is roughly 50/50% saturated/unsaturated fatty acids with enough lauric and myristic acids to make easy lather.
Olive oil is a traditional soaping oil, and Castile soaps (100% olive oil) and quite popular. However, you can replace olive oil with any other oil containing high levels of oleic acid -- HO safflower, HO sunflower are usually easy to find.
You can also make very nice soap without any OO at all -- 100% lard soaps are nice, Walmart's tallow based shortening produces an almost ideal "balanced" soap all by itself.
Lol, as usual, DeeAnna explained this better than I do while I was typing my reply!
Probably the best thing to do for yourself is to make small batches (500 g or so) with and without olive oil -- just substitute another oil for the olive oil and re-calculate with a soap calculator -- and see how you like them.
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I use rice bran oil instead of olive oil in a lot of my recipes. You can also use lard as 70% of your recipe with 25% coconut oil and 5% Castor oil. This makes a nice bar.
I've used Rice Bran as well as HO sunflower. I just finished my stash of Olive and am switching to HO sunflower or safflower. I also use avocado in some of my soaps.
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
I remember when I first started soaping almost 20 years ago, going to the grocery store and the health food store and seeing what oils I could find. not many! And the ones I could find were very expensive, tiny bottles at the health food store. Now I can buy avocado at Costco. I keep making to do my regular recipe, leaving out the olive entirely and replacing it with rice bran, to see how I like it. Right now I use olive, rice bran and HO sunflower ant 15% each.
I like Canola HO, Avocado Oil and Sunflower HO. Since Avocado Oil has been rising in price I do not use it as much as I did a year ago, and use either Canola HO or Sunflower HO. Both are lovely in soap
BrewerGeorge
Well-Known Member
Safflower HO.
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
I also use HO safflower instead of olive oil, it a fine substitute and is quite inexpensive.
If you are completely wanting to do away with any high oliec oil, 75% lard, 20% coconut, 5% castor will make a really nice gentle soap that lasts forever.
If you are completely wanting to do away with any high oliec oil, 75% lard, 20% coconut, 5% castor will make a really nice gentle soap that lasts forever.
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
I've used almond oil instead of olive oil in Honey, Oats & Goat Milk castile type bars, and all almond oil LS. Lovely for hair. What makes OO unique is its ability to bring other oils into saponification.
50% palm ko, 50% coconut with 20% superfat (gives a nice white cold process bar).
$2.50/Kg at my local bakery store (not local to you though), no other fats required.
Cheap to make (4x 250gm bars for under $3) but a little soft for the first 2-3 days after pouring, add more palm stearin if you want it hard quick.
My personal opinion is it's pointless to add expensive fats, it's just fashion.
$2.50/Kg at my local bakery store (not local to you though), no other fats required.
Cheap to make (4x 250gm bars for under $3) but a little soft for the first 2-3 days after pouring, add more palm stearin if you want it hard quick.
My personal opinion is it's pointless to add expensive fats, it's just fashion.
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Saponificarian
Well-Known Member
I think what you have is Palm Kernel oil and not palm oil. So 50% Palm Kernel oil and 50% Coconut oil quite similar to 100% coconut oil recipe with 20% superfat. I don't think 50% Palm oil and 50% Coconut oil at 20% superfat will make a great soap. I do agree with you though, no need using expensive oil in soap if you don't want to.....
I've never found anywhere local selling Palm Oil (and I've looked), It's all Palm Kernel Oil, maybe it's available in your country. Anyway, changed my post to 'Palm ko' to take in your concerns.
PKO and CO are interchangeable. I use them together in some of my recipes. I like 100% of the two with a 20% SF but many can't use it. They find it too cleansing even with 20% SF. I've also gotten DOS on those bars in the past. Probably due to the 20% SF.
No you don't need OO to make soap. I have Never used it as my skin doesn't like it. I can always tell if it has it in it.
Truthfully a more natural oil for human skin is lard as it is the closest to our skin pH and type. This has been scientifically proven. I did research many years ago when hubby asked me to make lard bars like his grandmother made. Back in her days it was about using everything on the farm nothing going to waste. Little did they know how good it was for our skin.
OO tends to be clogging for those with big pores. Those of us with acne or some skin conditions are better off using AO with nut oils like CO and almond or avocado or safflower ect. OO went way up in price a couple years ago and many had to and alternatives. So yes, you can do without and make a great if not better soap.
I know people use grapeseed with good results but I'm not one of them. The soap was ok but I didn't like it as much as some of my other recipes. The problem is the short shelf life of grapeseed so can develop DOS rather quickly. That's what happened to mine. But you definitely need to see how you like it. Yours may end up being great soap for you without any DOS problems!
Grapeseed oil is only 20% oleic acid and almost 70% linoleic acid. Olive is about 70% oleic and only 12% linoleic. Because the fatty acid percentages are quite different, grapeseed is not a good substitute for olive.
When one is going through their local store looking for affordable oils, how does one know if an oil is High Oleic? For instance, here's Walmart's Sunflower Oil's label:
Like most labels for oils, the word Oleic does not appear anywhere.
Or maybe better asked, when looking at the Poly... and Mono... fats, are their cutoffs we should be looking for?
Like most labels for oils, the word Oleic does not appear anywhere.
Or maybe better asked, when looking at the Poly... and Mono... fats, are their cutoffs we should be looking for?
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