Soap Is Not Moisturizing?

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Water dries the skin? After a long exposure maybe?

And yes, that sounds logical to me.

As much as I would like to contact Proctor and Gamble in hope of finding a physiologist and chemist to pose this question to, I bet they're forbidden to talk.
Yup! I know it sounds crazy! But water (especially hot water) accelerates evaporation and causes your skin to dry out. That’s why lotions work - they keep the moisture in.

Think of it another way - ever noticed that when you lick your lips a lot - it causes chapped lips? That’s because the water in your saliva accelerates evaporation of water in your skin. Crazy fun fact!
 
I love the smell of capitalism in the morning.
Smack Laugh.gif
Man, does that ever bring back memories... Robert Duvall, Apocalypse Now. Thanks for the laugh, Daryl! I needed that.
 
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On the other hand, maybe soap does moisturize because: 1) the water hydrates the skin at least a little, and a soap with a significant sf might leave enough oil residue to coat the skin and act as an occlusive. However, I read a post of DeeAnna dated Feb 11 which stated that the sf of a salt bar with high coconut oil does not replace the skin's natural oils that the bar cleaned off, but that its sf is emulsified and that prevents the high coconut oil from doing the stripping in the first place. Soooo....I'm still on the fence.
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I was waiting for someone to mention superfatting. This is of course not scientific but if our skin doesn't feel more moisturized when using our soap then why are we making soap, why not be satisfied with the detergent soaps in the store. From experience, I used to itch like crazy and had to slather baby oil all over myself until using superfatted homemade soap. Isn't that because there's more oil left on my skin and therefore somewhat moisturized?
 
I am busy testing a soap that I put citronella into to ward off mozzies and flies - have given out 27 bars to game rangers and the like - feedback is really good. Target market are tourists and outdoorsy people like myself.
You might want to try Lemon Eucalypus EO ... contains more citronella than citronella and smells waaay better... like lemon mint... Approved by the FDA as one of the few natural ingredients effective as skeeter repellent and, in use, other nasties as well. Effective at 10% in a spray I make. "Guinea person" tested in the Amazon -- gave it a thumb's up. Long story.

Oopsie. :oops: Apologies to the OP for the Hijack. Back to the topic at hand. (@Donee: Contact me off list if you want more info.)
 
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Shampoos are surfactants. Don't know how that does or does affect the situation. There's also anti fungal shampoo like Head and Shoulders, but does it work? Personal experience with myself and others is inconclusive because some say it helps but others say no. And not all flaky itchy scalps are dandruff so that throws another wrenchin our problem solving.

I find with psoriasis (and I believe its with a lot of things) what works for me may not work for you and vice versa. I believe it is the same way for homeopathic things too--to a certain extent even medicines are like that. but with that being said if it doesn't work for me and it works for you that doesn't mean it doesn't work. I know a lot of people on here make pine tar soap--why do they make it if it doesn't help the skin in someway--same with some of the EOs, tea tree being an example
 
So many variables come into play regarding soap - recipe, cure time, washing habits, drying habits, water hardness, climate, additives, perception, etc. So I believe it is something that can not be definitively answered.

Let's not forget skin-type, too.....and also allergies and/or tolerances. As Marilyn just said^^^what works well for one person (whether soaping oils or medicine), may not work well for another at all...... and/or may even be dangerous in a life-threatening way for certain others. For example, some folks cannot stand to formulate their soaps with olive oil (which is generally regarded as a gentle, conditioning oil in soap formulas), because it has the opposite effect on their skin that it has for many others- i.e., instead of being gentle, it's very drying or irritating to their skin. And though penicillin may be life saving for one person, it can put another person in the grave.

Also- I often feel the odd lass out on the forum when it comes to the % of coconut that one can tolerate to have in their soap formulas. lol Several folks can't go much over 15% in their formulas, while my family and myself are perfectly fine with any amount all the way up to 100% CO provided that my formula has a certain cushion % of superfat. With 100% CO, we need a 20% S/F, with 31% CO we need an 8% S/F, and with 28% CO, we're good with a 5% S/F.

Intrinsically speaking, I do not consider soap to be a 'moisturizer', and I would never ever refer to it as being such, because by definition, and by nature, and by experience, soap is a cleanser.....in other words, it's main purpose in life in effect is to get things clean.....that's what we buy if for..... but that's not to say you can't manipulate the level of its cleansing power by formulating with oils that don't contain so much lauric/myristic acids, and/or jack with the superfat level so that instead of your skin feeling dry after using it, it feels comfortably hydrated enough that you don't need to run for the lotion bottle. Even though my superfat level may leave behind an ever so slight, pleasant lotion-y feel on my skin (which by the way- yes- it does), when all said and done, my soap still cleans the dirt off my body like nothing else can.

That's the great thing about making our own soap.....we can find the balance of what amount of cleansing works best with each of our unique, individual skin-types to get them clean, but without making them feel as parched as the driest desert.

Hendejm said:
In my soap business, I choose to err on the side of caution and not make any medicinal claims. But I will say things like “ leaves skin feeling refreshed” or “nourishing oils and butters that gently clean the skin”. That may make me too much like a politician - but I don’t want to overstate or misinform my customer so I keep it vague and allow them to reach their own conclusions.

I could be wrong, but if you live in the USA, I think the term 'nourishing' on a soap label may put it under the classification of being a drug by FDA standards.


IrishLass :)
 
You might want to try Lemon Eucalypus EO ... contains more citronella than citronella and smells waaay better... like lemon mint... Approved by the FDA as one of the few natural ingredients effective as skeeter repellent and, in use, other nasties as well. Effective at 10% in a spray I make. "Guinea person" tested in the Amazon -- gave it a thumb's up. Long story.

Oopsie. :oops: Apologies to the OP for the Hijack. Back to the topic at hand. (@Donee: Contact me off list if you want more info.)

Good time to ask, what pairs well with citronella to offset the rather obnoxious odor without killing off the bug-repellant properties?
 
I could be wrong, but if you live in the USA, I think the term 'nourishing' on a soap label may put it under the classification of being a drug by FDA standards.
You may very well be right. My rationalization (that’s never gotten me into trouble before ;)) is that I’m saying that oils and butters are nourishing and that soap gently cleans the skin....leaving it up to the consumer to connect those dots! A fine line and a slippery Sloap... which I may be on the wrong side of!
 
HH..thanks for asking these thought provoking questions.

No matter the outcome, you learn a lot. I just hope everyone comes out still being friends. [emoji51]

I certainly have gained a ton of info here!

View attachment 37246 Man, does that ever bring back memories... Robert Duvall, Apocalypse Now. Thanks for the laugh, Daryl! I needed that.

Hey hey hey, our ages are showing now! lol

You might want to try Lemon Eucalypus EO ... contains more citronella than citronella and smells waaay better... like lemon mint... Approved by the FDA as one of the few natural ingredients effective as skeeter repellent and, in use, other nasties as well. Effective at 10% in a spray I make. "Guinea person" tested in the Amazon -- gave it a thumb's up. Long story.

Oopsie. :oops: Apologies to the OP for the Hijack. Back to the topic at hand. (@Donee: Contact me off list if you want more info.)

No apologies necessary, both of you just helped me out in the most unintentional but welcoming way!

I work in Alaska most summers and they have what’s called “no see’ums” that bite the hell out of you. I dislike using lotions and spray repellents so I was wondering if a citronella soap would do the trick. Now I found a better ingredient to use to test out some no see’um reppelent soap.

Thank you!
 
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No matter the outcome, you learn a lot. I just hope everyone comes out still being friends. [emoji51]

I certainly have gained a ton of info here!
If friends are lost over the word/term moisturizing, were they really meant to be friends? LOL
Not trying to make light of this, just wanted to add humor. :)

I always viewed soap as NOT being moisturizing because in my mind soap is meant to do 1 thing and 1 thing only and that's to clean and remove dirt/oils/gunk.

However, this is a very interesting debate, and leads me to questions I never asked, and answers to those questions, or in some cases, just leads me to more questions.
 
........ if our skin doesn't feel more moisturized when using our soap then why are we making soap.........

That for me is the crux. It might feel like that, but it doesn't mean that it is like that. And essentially those two questions can have opposite answers: does a soap moisturise? Does your soap make you FEEL moisturised?

As an example, the earth might APPEAR flat from where you are right now. IS the earth flat?

And that is also part of the reason for how intense it can get when discussing it. If someone was insistent that the earth is flat because it looks like it is, you would go crazy trying to talk sense to them. If someone says that soap moisturises because it feels like it does, you can get in to the same trap
 
Dandruff is considered both bacterial and fungal infection of the skin. Psoriarsis is considered a genetic autoimmune disorder of the skin. Logically (and legally in the US and probably many other countries) anything to treat these would be considered medicinal. So if someone uses pine tar soap with the purpose of 'soothing' or treating one such condition it would be considered medicinal soap (or shampoo, if it were used as a shampoo.)

Some more information about how nano particles are absorbed via the skin (a bit on the technical side): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2835875/
Notice that this is a rather old document (2009)

And then there is this article which states nanoparticles are not absorbed via the skin except through hair follicles (Gemany):
https://www.nanopartikel.info/en/nanoinfo/body-barriers/2080-nanoparticles-and-the-skin

An here is a compilation of several studies on the topic of nanoparticulate skin penetration (US - several pages of studies linked in this one article):
https://www.science.gov/topicpages/n/nanoparticle+skin+penetration

More information about the Integumentary System, of which the skin is only a part (less technical, probably easier for the lay person, but still enough science for many of us):
https://biologydictionary.net/integumentary-system/

But the bottom line for me is that I know the skin absorbs some, but not all chemicals. It is a barrier after all, but not an unpenetrable barrier for all things. There is no such thing, IMO.

But does the skin absorb something that is washed off immediately? Well, in some cases yes, and in some cases, no. Take my experience as a nurse. I had to apply nitropaste to a patient. I squeezed the required dose out of the tube onto the tape. (This was before I donned my gloves, stupid mistake.) I accidentally got some nitropaste on my finger tips. I immediately washed my hands. But I still got that horrendous nitropaste headache. (This was decades ago, and yes, I did learn an important lesson from this episode.) So, yes, some things are absorbed quickly and can get into the blood stream in spite of how quickly they are washed off the surface. But not all chemical compounds penetrate all layers of the skin this quickly and not all are able to pass through into the bloodstream.

So how does this relate to moisturizing? Knowing that some agents (chemicals, oils, what-have-you) are able to penetrate to differing depths of the skin layers, how 'moisturizing' are these items if they are in soap? Doesn't it depend on a combination of how long they are in contact with the skin, how penetrable the particles actually are, and how soon they are washed off? For a non-soap example, if I apply straight-up oil to my skin, and not wash it off at all, does that not penetrate my skin and therefore moisturize it? Well, it depends on the oil. Specifically, Babassu oil applied in this way to the skin of my hands penetrates my skin, but within minutes my hands feels quite dry and not moisturized. I know because I have done it a few times, straight up babassu with nothing added. Yet in my deodorant (with other additives), my pits don't feel dry and unmoisturized. In fact, they feel more moisturized. Go figure. But if I apply olive oil to my skin, let it penetrate the layers, yes, my skin feels moisturized and stays that way for awhile with no resulting dryness after penetration. Not sure why. It just is, and may not be the same for all people.

Does my skin feel better after using my own homemade soap? Of course, otherwise I wouldn't be bothering with it. But does it all moisturize? I don't think it necessarily does, but the thing is, in the US at least, if we sell our soap, and if we claim it moisturizes, then our product is regulated as a COSMETIC. If we don't want to have to deal with COSMETICs regulations, then we cannot claim our soap moisturizes. If we have no problem with that, we can make that claim all we want, even if we cannot proove it to be the case. (US specific regulations - not sure how this pertains to anywhere else.)
 
I agree with you on the disgusting so called medicinal bars out there.

Having said the above - i must add that BALANCE between science and nature is key. Cant just go and chuck your blood pressure tablets away because you found a herb that controls blood pressure now can you :)

Although the modern version is that nature IS science.
Oh i dont know - i have a flamingo poo filled brain right now. And I pulled 46 muscles (they are growing up)

*Digs blood pressure pills back out from the bottom of the rubbish bin*
 
That for me is the crux. It might feel like that, but it doesn't mean that it is like that. And essentially those two questions can have opposite answers: does a soap moisturise? Does your soap make you FEEL moisturised?
Sorry, for me, it's just not that important. I don't make any claims on my labels. So I'm just happy to not feel itchy. I sell my soap and let my happy customers decide what they want to say about it. And I don't try to convince anyone of anything.
 
Sorry, for me, it's just not that important. I don't make any claims on my labels. So I'm just happy to not feel itchy. I sell my soap and let my happy customers decide what they want to say about it. And I don't try to convince anyone of anything.
That’s probably the best answer yet!!!
 
On break at work, checking out Reddit when I come across this post about baby soap not burning the eyes while regular soap burns like hell....

Second paragraph he/she mentions moisture and I about lost my shhhhh laughing, after all the discussion we’ve had here in this thread....
 
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