Question about Mango Butter and Gelling

[Meena]

I used mango butter yesterday for the first time, and my 24 hour old soap is still too soft to cut (dents easily), and the bottom is a little sticky-ish. Does mango butter take longer to 'dry' and unmold/cut than, say, palm?

Second, I have been assuming that i've been getting gel because my soaps get pretty darn warm-hot under the newspaper and towel each time I've checked them, and I've not seen any partial gel on my finished soaps. Now i'm wondering if maybe i'm not getting any gel at all? Is that possible, if I'm insulating? Because in the last 2 or 3 batches, instead of just peeling back a corner to check heat level, I've actually peered at the resting batter trying to detect gel phase and haven't seen that spreading dark spot in the center.

How do i know for sure? (this is really bothering me now, for some reason)

 

[shunt2011]

You will definitely know of your soap is gelling. It gets pretty warm and will look somewhat transparent and darker. I suspect perhaps you’re not getting gel. Depending on your total recipe you should be able to have fairly solid soap after 24 hours.

 

[Hendejm]

I use mango butter and with my recipe I can usually cut in about 7 hours or so.

 

[Meena]

Hmmm, maybe just needs a little more time in the mold. My fatty acids rundown are all pretty normal range for me, and the soap qualities rundown are almost exactly like my last batch, which i HP'd so that doesn't count right now. The "loaf" is so thin, too, which i expected was going to harden faster than normal. I SF'd at only 1% though there was a bit of slop in measuring, so maybe 2% max, and 34% lye concentration (29.09% water). I think I'll just give it another few hours and check it again before bed. I might just cut it then, regardless of its status, since this batch was ill-fated from the get-go. I only used the combo I did because I'm out of o/s palm, and the saturateds in this batch were only 36. Could have something to do with it.

It's certainly interesting seeing how the different oils react in a batch of soap, apart from what I can so far discern from their FA profiles beforehand.

 

[Meena]

You will definitely know of your soap is gelling. It gets pretty warm and will look somewhat transparent and darker.

That's what i'm saying -- it gets VERY warm (even hot), but i'm not seeing that transparent and darker stuff goin' on.

 

[shunt2011]

That's what i'm saying -- it gets VERY warm (even hot), but i'm not seeing that transparent and darker stuff goin' on.

Hmm. Interesting. It should be gelling if it’s getting hot. Sometimes I can’t tell for sure of its gelling so that’s not totally unusual. What’s your recipe? Do you have a lot of liquid oils? How much Mango? I use butters in my soap and can generally cut in 8-12 hours. I don’t use mango in my soap though. Usually Shea or cocoa and sometimes both.

What lye concentration?

List give it a bit more time in the mold. Do you add salt to your water at all? That can help make it a bit firmer to help un mold.

It’s been pretty cold here and my soaps last weekend were actually still warm after 8 hours. I had them well insulated.

Sometimes stuff just happens.

 

[Meena]

This has been the case with all my recipes (not witnessing any gel, not ending up with any partial gel either).

1. Castor, Coconut, olive, and palm 33% lye concentration
2. Castor, coconut, olive, palm, tallow, and salt (soleseife; slightly overheated) 33% lye conc.
3. Avocado, castor, coconut, hemp, olive, red palm (this one's still kind of soft. Won't use red palm again, leave for cooking) lye not noted, but probably 33% or 34%
4. Avocado, castor, coconut, hemp, olive, palm 34% lye conc.
5. (First HP -) Coconut, castor, palm, sunflower - full water, ~ 38 water %
6. (Gee, only 6 soaps, so far!!!!) Avocado, castor, coconut, hemp, olive, 15% mango butter, 6% tallow
34% lye conc.

Going through this exercise is showing me that all my softest soaps have avocado in them, and the worst of the soft ones don't have my o/s palm. The soleseife overheating scared me off salt, haven't used it since batch #2.

I felt like I still detected a little warmth this morning, which would be really weird if true because that was 14 hours later.

We keep our home a bit on the cool side. Maybe I'll try CPOP or a heating pad on the next batch.

 

[shunt2011]

Maybe your an anomaly...... [emoji3]. Adding 1 tsp ppo won’t cause overheating. Sugar or anything with sugar can if too much is used. I personally would try some salt mixed in your water before adding the lye. 34% lye can be a little more difficult to get gel. Try a heating pad or CPOP. Just warm the oven and turn it off when you put your soap in. Most a bit of trouble shooting.

 

[Kafayat Adebowale oyeniyi]

I will rather just dump.my soap in the freezer now after pour....I love easy routes and fast too ....ahhhh

 

[Meena]

Maybe your an anomaly...... [emoji3]. Adding 1 tsp ppo won’t cause overheating. Sugar or anything with sugar can if too much is used. I personally would try some salt mixed in your water before adding the lye. 34% lye can be a little more difficult to get gel. Try a heating pad or CPOP. Just warm the oven and turn it off when you put your soap in. Most a bit of trouble shooting.

I am Definitely an anomaly!!! This extends way past soaping, lol.

Please tell me more about the 34% lye number -- how or why does that impact gel? I thought 33 - 34% was 'ideal'?

 

[shunt2011]

I am Definitely an anomaly!!! This extends way past soaping, lol.

Tell me more about the 34% lye number -- why does that impact gel? I thought 33 - 34% was 'ideal'?

The less liquid in a batch the harder to gel. I soap between 30-33%. If I want it to be a bit slower to trace with a difficult fo I’ll even go 29%. Generally of it really cool I’ll soap 30%. When it’s warmer 33%. I gel all my soaps. I pretty much know how my recipes act and gage them accordingly.

 

[Meena]

The less liquid in a batch the harder to gel. I soap between 30-33%. If I want it to be a bit slower to trace with a difficult fo I’ll even go 29%. Generally of it really cool I’ll soap 30%. When it’s warmer 33%. I gel all my soaps. I pretty much know how my recipes act and gage them accordingly.

Oh, this is fantastic knowledge that I had not been exposed to before!! It's going right into my soaping notebook!!
Thank you thank you thank you, Shari!!

 

[Donee']

I use mango butter and with my recipe I can usually cut in about 7 hours or so.

why use mango butter??

 

[Dawni]

why use mango butter??

Butters in general help with the hardness and longevity of the soap especially if not using palm. That's the reason I use them.

And in case the benefits are retained, mango butter is lovely on the skin.. If it costs as much as cocoa or shea I'd use it more but it's more than double the price here.

 

[penelopejane]

I am Definitely an anomaly!!! This extends way past soaping, lol.

Please tell me more about the 34% lye number -- how or why does that impact gel? I thought 33 - 34% was 'ideal'?

As Shari said insulating your soaps should get them over the gel line. If you don’t see the partial gel ring I wouldn’t bother CPOPing it. Just get used to your recipes and know what it takes to get them over the line in summer and winter. You’ll know if you haven’t gelled it when you get partial gel - very annoying.

1tsp ppo won’t overheat your soap and will speed up the hardness of your soap.

 

[Hendejm]

why use mango butter??

I like mango butter because it produces a nice hard soap, it’s less expensive for me than cocoa or Shea, and I think it makes the slip nice and silky in the shower.

For lotions and balms - it’s much less greasy on the skin. It melts into the skin and doesn’t leave it oily.

 

[Dawni]

I like mango butter because it produces a nice hard soap, it’s less expensive for me than cocoa or Shea, and I think it makes the slip nice and silky in the shower.

For lotions and balms - it’s much less greasy on the skin. It melts into the skin and doesn’t leave it oily.

I'm jealous that it's cheaper than cocoa and shea there lol

But I agree regarding leave on stuff.. I blended mango butter with lavender infused sweet almond or sunflower oil and we've been using that instead of lotion and face cream for years now

 

[Clarice]

I like mango butter because it produces a nice hard soap, it’s less expensive for me than cocoa or Shea, and I think it makes the slip nice and silky in the shower.

For lotions and balms - it’s much less greasy on the skin. It melts into the skin and doesn’t leave it oily.

May I ask where you get your Mango Butter? I LOVE it and have not found an inexpensive source! Thank you!

 

[Clarice]

Also - I just learned from this post about "lye concentration" - I have just been running things through the soap calculator and going with it. I went back and saw that you can dictate lye concentration in the calculator - to this point I had not noticed that and had not checked/dictated that.

Is there a guide to recommended levels?

I went back and looked at the PDF of the recipie I made the other day that FLOPPED, and saw that the LC was only 26%.....might this be the culprit?

So many questions!

 

[Dawni]

This by our very own DeeAnna has become my guide in anything concerning lye and water.. Hope it helps you guys.

There's also multiple explanations all over this forum. I searched them extensively when I was new(er) and I suggest you guys do the same