One tiny change... Disaster!

[GreenDragon]

So last month I made a batch of bar soap specifically for shaving, and using Tamanu Oil as the super-fat in the recipe: 4 Oz CO, 4 Oz Olive, 5 Oz Palm, 1 Oz Avocado, 1 Tbs Bentonite, 2.2 Oz Lye, 1 Cup Water. I blended to light trace, then added the Tamanu Oil and Shave & a Haircut fragrance. I got beautiful green firm bars. After a (almost!) month's cure, I tried a bar out and got a wonderful shave and skin felt great, so I decided to make another batch, this time scenting for the ladies with Oatmeal Milk and Honey.

Well, I must have had too many things going on at once, because not thinking I added the Tamanu oil to the batch instead of waiting until after trace. Not thinking it should make that big a difference, I proceeded on and added the lye and started SB. I guess the ratio's of lye to oil was just too far off, because after 30 seconds it started to separate. BIG TIME. I tried SB'ing the h*** out of it, but it would just not come back together.

So, I took a deep breath, and started thinking through the problem. The separation seemed very oily, so I guessed that the ratio of Lye to Oil to water was too imbalanced to form a proper emulsion. So I added a tsp of lye to the mix and continued to blend. It started to come together, then broke again! Darn it!

I then added a couple tablespoons of water, and another tsp of lye, and continued to blend. It started to come together again, but slowly started to break again. Arggh!!! In a flash of inspiration, I grabbed a few cubes of a failed batch of soap that never fully hardened, and blended it into the mix to act as seed crystals. It instantly started to smooth out and come together into a very smooth, but thick mix. I glopped it into some molds, and it turned into some very solid pucks of soap in about 30 minutes. :mrgreen:

Not as pretty as the bars, but not bad.

 

[KattChaos]

I actually love the way those look. Good job at the save!

 

[Susie]

Are you using volume measurements, or weights? Also, why were you adding an oil at trace? The lye takes what it wants, and you can't control it.

Please be sure to zap test this soap before using! The random throwing extra lye and water in is rather frightening.

 

[Obsidian]

You added dry lye to a separated batter? How do you know it fully dissolved? Sorry but I wouldn't use that soap if you payed me.

The separation had nothing to do with when you added the SF since SF can't be controlled in CP. Sometimes it just happens with no sensible reason.
When I get separation, I walk away for a few minutes then come back and SB again. Eventually it will come together, usually after its generated some more heat. Another option is to try and HP it. I've never had separated batter not come together and I definitely wouldn't just start dumping lye in willy nilly.

 

[GreenDragon]

You added dry lye to a separated batter? How do you know it fully dissolved? Sorry but I wouldn't use that soap if you payed me.

The separation had nothing to do with when you added the SF since SF can't be controlled in CP. Sometimes it just happens with no sensible reason.
When I get separation, I walk away for a few minutes then come back and SB again. Eventually it will come together, usually after its generated some more heat. Another option is to try and HP it. I've never had separated batter not come together and I definitely wouldn't just start dumping lye in willy nilly.

It's passed the zap test. I let it sit off and on for 10 minutes, and I still couldn't get it to come together - that's when I figured it must be an imbalance. I had originally calculated a SF of 7%. With the added lye I'm still at 3% super-fat, so I wasn't worried about adding too much lye. I'm beginning to think my scale is not as accurate as I need, and will be replacing it.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

If there are any undissolved lye beads/flakes in there, the whole bar won't zap, but a few spots will be pure lye! I would not risk anyone using this soap unless I was 109% sure that there were no undissolved bits of lye somewhere in there

 

[cmzaha]

I really do not understand the thinking of adding in dry lye if that is what you did, as it most likely will not dissolve in the separated batter. You really should never never just add in dry lye and as EG mentioned ^^^ you will not have zap in ally areas. That is one soap I would trash, it is not worth it. When did you add in your fragrance? it sounds like possible ricing and separation from a fragrance oil. With ricing it can take a long time to come together after stick blending, letting it rest, stick blending, resting until it decides to comes together. No matter when you add in your tamanu in cp it will not affect your soap as you think it did. Adding at trace makes no difference with cp. You simply cannot just add in lye "by the seat of your pants?" Toss it and try again with a different fo

 

[shunt2011]

I'm have to agree with TEG and cmzaha, I wouldn't touch it ever if you added dry lye to the batter. I too would toss it.

 

[Susie]

And are you using volume measurements? If so, you need to go back and do some reading before proceeding with any soap.

 

[Rusti]

Greendragon, the other soapers aren't telling you the things they're telling you just to be hateful or unreasonable. If you really did add dry lye into your batter instead of dissolving it into water first, you will get a nasty surprise when you go to use this soap. The volume measurements are also concerning because they're not nearly as reliable as weights.

Please, if you added dry lye beads to this, throw this soap away and save yourself the surprise burns you'll get when it hits your skin. I know it sucks to chuck something you put a lot of work into, but for safety's sake I'd never use this soap.

 

[GreenDragon]

Yep, batch is tossed. Thanks everyone

Cmzaha - never got to add the FO.

Susie - I weigh everything. The original recipe I found was in OZ, but I converted everything to grams and ran it through soapcalc to get my lye & water, but didn't have my conversion handy when I was writing my post.

Never give up - never surrender! I'm going to pick up a new scale and try the recipe again until I can replicate the first batch. :headbanging:

 

[HowieRoll]

I also wonder if part of the original problem with separating was due to too much water in the original recipe? If you indeed used a cup of water (8oz), and 2.2 oz NaOH, then does that work out to around a 22% lye concentration? Although I've not personally used that low of a lye concentration, I've read posts from members here (especially DeeAnna) who indicate that going that low will cause problems with separating. The lowest concentration I've gone is 25%, and that is with hot process where you need the extra liquid.

In fact, this was brought up recently on another thread and I just found it to link here (see posts #12 & #13, in particular):

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=64945&page=2

Glad you are not giving up and good luck with your next batches!

 

[BaBa]

The scents can actually lead soaps to misbehave like this. If you used undiluted NaOH grains (which I assume you didn't), you can still salt the lye and the glycerin out. This was actually one of the traditional steps of Marseille's soap. It works by making HP soap with lye excess, then salting out. It gives brick-hard soaps that can still be milled and used in laundry or rebatch.

Recipe (sorry for the grams, but I really can't risk converting units in ounces)
Water 1L
Nasty soap 250 up to 500g
Salt (NaCl) 360g.

Dissolve the salt in water, mill your nasty soap then boil everything together until it separate. Soap will absorb a bit of the salt and the water and eventually gain volume and weight. Once separated, throw the water out and dry the soap pellets you've obtained. That's it.