Newbie Questions

[Trxflyer]

Hi Everyone,

I've been lurking around and reading untold numbers of postings on this and other forums. I've made a couple of batches of CP soap and have found it to be very addictive. But, I do have a few questions that I can't seem to determine specific answers by reading the forum postings. If you have time, could someone answer a few for me?


1) Do most soap makers use coconut oil 76, 92 or Fractionated?

2) Do you add most exfoliates (oatmeal, coffee grinds, clay powders, cocoa, tea leaves, etc) into the mixture just after the lye water and oils/solids have been mixed together?

3) Do most soap makers use regular olive oil or light olive oil or does it just depend on the color of the soap you are attempting to achieve?

4) Which is better / most effective? - Oil Soluble Titanium Dioxide or Water Soluble Titanium Dioxide?

5) What is the best practical temperature range to work with for non milk soaps?

6) If you want to add tea, coffee, or other enhanced liquids, is it best to add it a component of the total lye water mixture of half the water and add the flavored water to the soap once lye water and the oils/solids have been combined?

7) Based on value, information, selection, and quality, what is the best couple of websites for buying EO, FO, Colorants?

Thank you for any help you can provide!

Michael

 

[maiseycat]

1) I use coconut 76, but the SAP values and characteristics of 76 and 92 are negligible. 76 tends to be easier to find, and more economical. Fractionated coconut oil is actually quite different in terms of the properties it brings, but for the cost of it, in my opinion, it's better to use it in a leave on product like lotion.

2) I add my additives at trace so that they are more likely to stay suspended in the raw batter and not settle to the bottom. One that I added did clump up a wee bit, and if I use that one again, I'll likely premix it with a wee bit of oil to prevent that (it was beans I had gound up into a powder, for the record)

3)It comes down to preference on that one. So far, I have been using olive oil pomace, but I just bought some light olive oil to compare them. In my opinion, worth what you paid for it , the difference in colour does not make a huge difference in the end product. If you use any additional colourants like micas, or natural colourants, you will likely not notice much of a difference at all. I have heard that pomace grade does speed up trace, which is why I am trying light now.

4)This depends on what end result you wish to achieve. If you are swirling with other colours, the water soluble TD will be in your entire batch, and will lighten or mute your other colours. Not horribly so, but it will make a difference.

5)This one is preference again. My apartment has a higher than average ambient room temperature, due to a quirk of the building design. My soaps gel without having to insulate. So, I tend to soap as close to room temperature as I can get. Higher temps will speed up trace, but lower and you run the risk of your hard oils starting to solidify and show you false trace. I think I have seen a lot of recommendations for the 110 to 115 F range as a happy medium, but find what works for you. This is a science, but it's also an art

6)It depends on the liquid. When I made a coffee soap, I just used it as my lye water (which then smelled kind of like burned coffee, lol) Something that has a lot of sugar will overheat quickly on you, so you may want to subtract the amount of what you are using from your total water and add it at trace, or freeze it and add the lye slowly, allowing the lye to melt it.

7) I'm not sure where you are, and that will make a difference. There is a shopping recommendation section of this forum which is a goldmine for info. I am Canadian, and my favorites are Voyageur, Saffire Blue, and New Directions Aromatics, but if you are somewhere else, the first two will probably cost you more in shipping than it is worth.

And lastly, welcome to the forums! Don't be afraid to jump in and ask questions, we are all constantly learning from each other. I'm still pretty new to soaping myself, but this is an amazingly fun and addictive science/craft.

 

[danahuff]

Hi Michael, and welcome.

1. I think most use 76 mainly because it is easier to find (the LouAna brand is available in Walmart. I have never used any other kind.
2. I add them at trace most of the time. Of course, it depends on the exfoliant. Some clays are added at different times. I would check if you are using clay, but the others can pretty much all be safely added at trace and mixed well.
3. It depends. I personally use light olive oil. It's cheaper, and I can't tell the difference between light and extra virgin in soap.
4. If you find out the answer to this one, let me know. I got oil soluble for the first time, and I had some crackle in my soap where the TD acted weird. It looks cool, but I want to avoid it or control it.
5. I usually soap around 100 degrees, but you can go a little higher or lower. The range from 90-110 degrees seems to work best for me.
6. I use tea in place of the water and add the lye to it. I think other soapers the same with coffee, aloe vera juice, and beer, but you have to prepare some of these liquids differently. For instance, you need to set out the beer and let it get flat, then boil it for about 5 minutes to evaporate the alcohol, then let the beer cool. But you could add these liquids to the oils and discount the amount of water, too.
7. My favorite is Nature's Garden for FO's and Bramble Berry for colorants.

Have fun!

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Ok, let me see if I can help you...
First off, you'll probably get a lot of different opinions here for these questions...the only definite in soap making is the need for fatty acids and an alkali...other than that its mostly preference.
That being said:
1. Most soap makers use 76 degree Coconut Oil, but 92 will work. Fractionated is usually used for body products.

2. Most exfoliants are added at "trace", the point after lye/oils have been mixed, emulsified, and a trail of soap batter will sit on top of the batter for a second or two before sinking. The heavier the exfoliant, the thicker your batter should be when you add it so it doesn't sink to the bottom. You can add clays and other powders directly to the oil before the lye if you so choose. I usually do.

3. Refined Olive Oil or Olive Pomace is used for soapmaking. You can use EVOO, but its cost prohibitive and doesn't add anything spectacular to soap to justify the price.

4. Oil or Water soluble Titanium Dioxide is preference...but I think more folks use Water Soluble. I don't personally use it, so I have no preference LOL.

5. I like to soap 110-120 degrees F for most soaps.

6. You can use whatever liquid you choose as your entire liquid amount used to make your lye solution, or any percentage split you deem worthy. For beer or milk, I choose to do split method, mixing my lye with water and adding the rest of the liquid at trace, making sure to subtract whatever I'm adding from the liquid used upfront to make my lye solution.

7. I like Camden Grey for Essential Oils, or New Directions Aromatics. I have purchased from Essential Depot with mixed experiences (but they have great deals on sodium hydroxide). Soap Making Resource has a nice selection of natural colorants, Brambleberry has both natural and synthetic colorants...just depends on what you're going for.

Hope that helps!

 

[Hazel]

1) Do most soap makers use coconut oil 76, 92 or Fractionated?

I use 76 degree but there really isn't much of a difference between it and 92 degree. The difference is the 92 is hydrogenated so it melts at a slightly higher temp (hence the degree added after the number :wink. The properties are the same. I don't recommend FCO for soapmaking. It doesn't have the same properties - it doesn't bubble well and the soap had an odd, slick feel to it. The only batch it wasn't too bad in was a 70% OO/30% FCO bastile. It actually cut the curing time but I wasn't impressed by the lather. Regular coconut is better because it boosts the lather and helps to produce bubbles.

2) Do you add most exfoliates (oatmeal, coffee grinds, clay powders, cocoa, tea leaves, etc) into the mixture just after the lye water and oils/solids have been mixed together?

I add oatmeal, tea leaves and coffee grounds after trace so they will stay suspended better. The only time I've used clay is when I've been using it to add additional slip or as a colorant. So, I blend it in with some of the batch, then the colored portion back in and swirl it. So, approximately at the emulsification stage or light trace. To add slip to the soap, I added it after I mixed the lye solution with the oils. This is just how I did it. It may not be the best way. I don't use clay very often in soap so I'm sure someone else can tell you the best way. I think someone mentioned she added clay into her water so it would be well dispersed. I haven't tried this but I thought it didn't sound like a bad idea. I keep meaning to try it one of these days.

3) Do most soap makers use regular olive oil or light olive oil or does it just depend on the color of the soap you are attempting to achieve?

This is harder to answer. Some people prefer to use EVOO because it's the least processed oil. I have used it and EVO and both were fine. I now use refined olive because it costs less. Some people prefer pomace olive because of it's lower price and it will reach trace faster than EVOO and EVO. It's really personal preference. I hadn't thought of it but color may be a factor.

4) Which is better / most effective? - Oil Soluble Titanium Dioxide or Water Soluble Titanium Dioxide?

IMO, neither is better or more effective than the other. I've used both and was happy with the results. Again, this is just my personal opinion but I think oil soluble is harder to mix in thoroughly.

5) What is the best practical temperature range to work with for non milk soaps?

Depends on whether you're going to be adding in fragrance which may accelerate. If you have a FO which you know is temperamental, you might want to let the lye solution and oils cool a little before adding it. Maybe 105 or less? I tend to mix the lye solution and oils a little higher (110 -120) if I know the FO won't accelerate. Again, it's personal preference. I know some people prefer to use cooler temps.

6) If you want to add tea, coffee, or other enhanced liquids, is it best to add it a component of the total lye water mixture of half the water and add the flavored water to the soap once lye water and the oils/solids have been combined?

I use tea to mix the lye in and don't worry about it. I figure it's going to discolor no matter when I add it. The only liquids which I add after the lye/oils are mixed are wine, beer and dairy. I just use enough water to dissolve the lye and then add the these liquids. I should say the dairy products are the only ones I always do the part water/part dairy every time. I have mixed lye into beer and wine but I make sure the alcohol has been simmered off and the beer is also flat.

7) Based on value, information, selection, and quality, what is the best couple of websites for buying EO, FO, Colorants?

This is difficult to answer. I use soaperschoice.com for most of my oils. For most of my fragrance oils - peakcandle.com. But I also buy from naturesgardencandles.com, rusticescentuals.com, and sweetcakes.com. I've seen recommendations for candlescience.com and elementsbathandbody.com but I haven't bought from them...yet. I haven't bought EOs for awhile so I don't know who has the best value but newdirectionsaromatics.com had great quality. I've bought colorants mostly from tkbtrading.com and Bitter Creek North (candlesupply.com).You might want to check in the Shopping Recommendations section.

Wow! You got quite a few answers while I was typing this reply.

 

[Trxflyer]

Wow, thank you maiseycat, danahuff, AlchemyandAshes, and Hazel!! I appreciate you guys using so much time and effort in sharing your experience and knowledge. I'm a member on several forums (different hobbies) and this forum and you guys are truly the best and most sharing. Thanks you for all your help!

 

[MaitriBB]

1.) Do mostsoap makers use coconut oil 76, 92 or Fractionated?
I use 76degree coconut oil because it’s the easiest to find. I’m lucky in that a local country storecarries it in 2 gallon tubs for $20.

2) Do you add most exfoliates (oatmeal, coffee grinds, clay powders, cocoa, tealeaves, etc) into the mixture just after the lye water and oils/solids havebeen mixed together?
I don’ttypically use exfoliates, but when I do (I drink Dos Equiis… oh wait no, wrongthread) I add it to the oils before adding the lye mixture.

3) Do most soap makers use regular olive oil or light olive oil or does it justdepend on the color of the soap you are attempting to achieve?
I don’t useolive oil at all. I find that a coconutoil-grapeseed oil-lard mixture makes a nice white bar, but adding olive oilyellows it considerably. Then again, Iwas buying the cheapest OO I could find, so perhaps a more expensive kind wouldbe lighter in color.

4) Which is better / most effective? - Oil Soluble Titanium Dioxide or WaterSoluble Titanium Dioxide?
I think eitheris fine. Brambleberry’s is soluble ineither water or oil.

5) What is the best practical temperature range to work with for non milksoaps?
I will refrainfrom answering because I room temp soap – I don’t measure temp.

6) If you want to add tea, coffee, or other enhanced liquids, is it best to addit a component of the total lye water mixture of half the water and add theflavored water to the soap once lye water and the oils/solids have beencombined?
The onlyliquids that I have soaped with have been water or goat’s milk. When using the milk, I replace the water inthe lye mixture with frozen milk cubes.

7) Based on value, information, selection, and quality, what is the best coupleof websites for buying EO, FO, Colorants?
I like PeakCandle Supply and Save on Scentsfor FO’s, Liberty Natural for EO’s,and The Conservatorie for colorants.

 

[2lilboots]

I am only going to answer the temp that I soap, which is usually around 85 degrees F. I do this so that I am able to pipe my soap. As A&A would say, it is all personal preference and you will find which method works best for you.

 

[lizflowers42]

Welcome! I'm also new to CP soap making, and I find that this forum is chock full of great people and even better information! :mrgreen:

I did a beer soap, after reading reviews, and decided to let it go flat in my fridge for several days. Then I poured it into a pyrex container and covered with plastic wrap and put it in the freezer. I added my lye directly to this beer slushie mix, and had no problems with it bubbling, but it did stink a bit, which I'm assuming as mentioned was because of the sugars burning. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, and it worked great. I am extremely paranoid about safety with lye, so I was a little worried about how this would work out, so far, the curing bars are looking good and don't smell like burnt beer sugar.

 

[Trxflyer]

MaitriBB - I love your Dos Equis reference! That Does Equis guy is my hero Thanks for the info, especially that Brambleberry's TD is water & oil soluble. I didn't realize my TD was water soluble only when I mixed it into the oil. Needless to say, it turned out a bit grainy though it does seem to be smoothing out as it cures.

MaitriBB & 2lilboots - Room temp and 85 degrees is the lowest I've read. Do you find any unique challenges working with those temps versus say 100-110 (non-milk)?

lizflowers42 - When the bars are done curing. Are you hoping for a beer smelling soap or some other scent?

 

[2lilboots]

It takes longer for the soap to trace, and that is what I want. My soaps will still gel and go thru saponification. But i cannot have soap on a stick when I want to put it in my piping bags to make roses and such. If I soap at higher temps it seems once I mix in the colorants I must put it in the mold immediately.

 

[lizflowers42]

Beer scented...not so much. I was hoping that the smell of the hops would come out the most. I also added clove and orange EO, but not enough!

 

[2lilboots]

My beer soap that is unscented just smells like yeast. The ones I scented smell like their FO or EO that I used. BUT.........I got a 6-pack of Shock Top Pumpkin Wheat Beer that I plan on soaping with next. Don't ask what it tastes like I am clueless when it comes to beer. I am wondering if the smell will come thru on this one.

 

[CaliChan]

1) Do most soap makers use coconut oil 76, 92 or Fractionated?
I use 76, its good cheep and easy to get

2) Do you add most exfoliates (oatmeal, coffee grinds, clay powders, cocoa, tea leaves, etc) into the mixture just after the lye water and oils/solids have been mixed together?
I add them after a light trace

3) Do most soap makers use regular olive oil or light olive oil or does it just depend on the color of the soap you are attempting to achieve?
heh i usually just buy the cheapest thing on the shelves

4) Which is better / most effective? - Oil Soluble Titanium Dioxide or Water Soluble Titanium Dioxide?
I like the oil soluble.

5) What is the best practical temperature range to work with for non milk soaps?
uuummm wow i dont even pay attention any more, as long as the metal bowl is at room temp i start mixing things

6) If you want to add tea, coffee, or other enhanced liquids, is it best to add it a component of the total lye water mixture of half the water and add the flavored water to the soap once lye water and the oils/solids have been combined?
I replace the water with coffee (concentrated and frozen) and just mix the lye in really really slowly same with goats milk. havent worked with tea or anything else really, although i did recently learn to add wine at trace and not in with the lye because it turns it brown instead of keeping its red/maroon color

7) Based on value, information, selection, and quality, what is the best couple of websites for buying EO, FO, Colorants?
:/ Bramblebarry is the only place ive gone so far, other than that i just go into the spices section for colorants or the health foods store for EOs

 

[Trxflyer]

Thanks CaliChan! More great info to help with my learning curve!