Natural preservative?

[dkleinert1]

I began making cold process bar soap in 1996, and continued until 2010 when my husband became very ill, and I had less and less time to make soap. Now I want to begin again. During all of those years I used Rosemary Oil and Grapefruit Seed Extracts as my natural preservative. What is everyone using now? Where do you buy it? THANKS in advance!! Happy this Forum is still going strong.

 

[jcandleattic]

I began making cold process bar soap in 1996, and continued until 2010 when my husband became very ill, and I had less and less time to make soap. Now I want to begin again. During all of those years I used Rosemary Oil and Grapefruit Seed Extracts as my natural preservative. What is everyone using now? Where do you buy it? THANKS in advance!! Happy this Forum is still going strong.

ROE and GSE aren't preservatives, they are antioxidants. They can help extend the shelf life of your base oils, and possibly prevent rancidity and DOS, but they will not preserve them.

However, in bar soap, you don't need a preservative.

 

[Kittish]

ROE- rosemary oleoresin extract- is one that a lot of people add to their oils when they open each jug to help retard oxidation. ROE alone is reasonably effective, but adding EDTA as well, or using BHT plus EDTA is even more effective. Grapefruit seed extract really isn't very effective as an anti-oxident.

http://cavemanchemistry.com/DreadedOrangeSpot-Dunn.pdf

https://classicbells.com/soap/ROE.html

 

[shunt2011]

I add ROE to my oils when I open them. It extends the shelf life of the oils. Preservatives aren't needed in soap due to the PH.

 

[dkleinert1]

Thanks so much ladies. I have to get back into the correct names for things. I know the ROE and GSE are not preservatives, and I should not have used that word. Thanks for helping me regain my vocabulary when making body care products. I am thankful for this forum and you.

 

[BaBa]

Hi,

Now the use of Tocopherol (Vitamin E) as an antioxidative is also quite common. It seems to work pretty well, plus it doesn't smell anything noticeable at recommended quantities.

 

[DeeAnna]

Vitamin E might be fine in cosmetics and lotions for its skin benefits, but as far as preventing rancidity in soap or soaping fats, it's pretty much useless.

 

[BaBa]

Vitamin E might be fine in cosmetics and lotions for its skin benefits, but as far as preventing rancidity in soap or soaping fats, it's pretty much useless.

Well, I don't agree with you. It is in fact a great cosmetic ingredient and diary, but its action is precisely antioxidative. A lot of furnishers sell it for this exact purpose, and it has been used in the oleochemical industry for decades for preventing rancidity.

Edit: After reading your message, I did some research and it appears that the bad reputation of it comes from a stress test conduced by Kevin Dunn, where tocopherol showed indeed poor results. However, he used much less tocopherol than recommended. Tocopherol works well at higher rates, thus may be simply less cost-effective than ROE.

 

[toxikon]

I'm going to sneak onto this thread to ask a question I've been casually wondering about.

Is it okay to refrigerate ROE? When I bought a small container of it, I popped it into the fridge without really thinking about it. Hopefully it doesn't affect the potency negatively or anything.

 

[dixiedragon]

IIRC, there was a that recommended using GSE as a preservative. it turned out the brand the author was using contained an actual, non-natural preservative, so that's why she was experiencing good results using GSE as a preservative.

 

[DeeAnna]

Well, I don't agree with you. It is in fact a great cosmetic ingredient and diary, but its action is precisely antioxidative. A lot of furnishers sell it for this exact purpose, and it has been used in the oleochemical industry for decades for preventing rancidity.

I do agree that tocopherols/Vitamin E are antioxidants, but I maintain they are not efficacious for preventing oxidation and rancidity in soap. Believe what you like -- and you will have many handcrafted soapers standing with you -- but I'll stick with the hard information from soap making research and standard manufacturing practices.

Kevin Dunn's experimental results regarding the use of Vitamin E to prevent rancidity in soap showed it had zero efficacy. BHT or rosemary oleoresin (ROE) showed a definite antioxidant effect. Reference: Dunn, K. Scientific Soapmaking.

The primary antioxidant used in commercially produced soap is BHT. Reference: Spitz, L. Soap Manufacturing Technology.

 

[MissE]

Is It the Stick Blending Demon?

"If this starts to happen to you (FALSE TRACE), keep stick blending! The oils and lye need to be stick blended until the batch is emulsified."

When I arrived ever-too-soon at a false trace today, I took this advice which I found on a very reputable soapmaking site. Unfortunately when I did, my mixture just separated, with clear lye solution (or maybe water?) sitting at the bottom and refusing to join the party.

This is the second time this is happening to me and it seems to have happened the only two times I've actually used a stick blender (didn't have one all this time).

Is it the stick blending?

Does anyone know why this might have happened and what I can do to avoid it next time?

Thanks.

*** Ooops! New on the forum and can't seem to find how to start a new thread. Anyone help, please?

 

[DeeAnna]

*** Ooops! New on the forum and can't seem to find how to start a new thread. Anyone help, please?

Click here to go to the main listing for this forum: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11

Look for the "NEW THREAD" button in blue on the left hand side above the list of threads in the forum. Click on it.

It will be a great help in your new thread if you will provide your ENTIRE recipe with ALL ingredients in WEIGHTS. And give your method too. Be specific and clear -- otherwise it's just a guessing game.

 

[MissE]

Click here to go to the main listing for this forum: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11

Look for the "NEW THREAD" button in blue on the left hand side above the list of threads in the forum. Click on it.

It will be a great help in your new thread if you will provide your ENTIRE recipe with ALL ingredients in WEIGHTS. And give your method too. Be specific and clear -- otherwise it's just a guessing game.

Thanks so much, DeeAnna! Here's my brand new thread and hope you can weigh in : http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=663319#post663319

 

[BaBa]

I do agree that tocopherols/Vitamin E are antioxidants, but I maintain they are not efficacious for preventing oxidation and rancidity in soap. Believe what you like -- and you will have many handcrafted soapers standing with you -- but I'll stick with the hard information from soap making research and standard manufacturing practices.

Kevin Dunn's experimental results regarding the use of Vitamin E to prevent rancidity in soap showed it had zero efficacy. BHT or rosemary oleoresin (ROE) showed a definite antioxidant effect. Reference: Dunn, K. Scientific Soapmaking.

The primary antioxidant used in commercially produced soap is BHT. Reference: Spitz, L. Soap Manufacturing Technology.

I know the article you are referring, but Kevin Dunn used almost twice less than recommended. As I said before, it is still possible for tocopherol to be really less cost effective than ROE. And I certainly have no doubt that BHT is also an excellent antioxidant, but question here was about natural ones. I was just saying that this was actually an existing option, even if Vitamin E is often synthesized.

I understand your views and agree partially with it, but besides Kevin Dunn's article I could not find nothing about this. We may take some time to dig articles about tocopherol efficiency in high pH ambients.

Anyway, I took a look to your blog and found really nice tutorials and knowledge, I wish to thank you for sharing your references, they are very useful and well-written.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Is it okay to refrigerate ROE? When I bought a small container of it, I popped it into the fridge without really thinking about it. Hopefully it doesn't affect the potency negatively or anything.

It should be fine, but doesn't need refrigeration. Don't laugh, but when I buy ROE (2 oz) I add it to 4 oz. jojoba (Use rate @ 1/2 tsp PPO) to extend shelf life. I keep it in my soaping box that holds all the equipment and goodies I need to make soap. It lasts a loooong time.

...there was a that recommended using GSE as a preservative. it turned out the brand the author was using contained an actual, non-natural preservative, so that's why she was experiencing good results using GSE as a preservative.

I'm so happy to know that! TY! I believe that author was Susan Miller Cavitch (The Soapmaker's Companion) and (The Natural Soap Book). Excellent reference books that I still use at times. However, most of her recipes had a lye discount around 10% or so and my thought was that's why she needed GSE. At the same time I bought her book, ages ago, I read an article on MMS about GSE and how expensive it was and not all that effective, so I never used it, but I've always wondered whether others did and how it worked for them.

On the other hand, I've used ROE + Vitamin E (Tocopherol) in every batch of soap I've made since 2004 and never experienced DOS (including some soaping oils/fats that were past their shelf life).

HTH :bunny:

ETA: PM me your Email Addy if you'd like a copy of a (2010) 12-page PDF: FORMULATING WITH ROSEMARY EXTRACT from http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com
It's doesn't seem to be readily accessible at this time. Lotsa good info about ROE and recipes.
​

 

[osso]

I'm going to sneak onto this thread to ask a question I've been casually wondering about.

Is it okay to refrigerate ROE? When I bought a small container of it, I popped it into the fridge without really thinking about it. Hopefully it doesn't affect the potency negatively or anything.

I think that wouldn't hurt it, but it's already pretty viscous and refrigeration might make it less fluid.