Mica/glitter particles

[LBussy]

I just got this one. I see it's p100 like you mentioned in previous post. Will this be good for go's as well? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009XW3ZS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The manufacturer states the toxic dust cartridges with which it comes equipped (P100 NIOSH class) filter 99.997% of dust 0.3 microns and larger.

That's good.

I use the same ones for my pyrotechnics work, where I am working with chemicals that are outright toxic.

For those who cannot or would not want to work outdoors, a fan placed in the window next to you blowing out will get rid of a lot of airborne dust. To test visually, light some incense and move it around, seeing where your "safe zone" is.

 

[DeeAnna]

Luebella -- I agree with Lee -- the respirator you chose will work fine.

***

"...And...is that cause for concern? Should a hobbyist have reason enough to, for example...open, measure and mix, the micas outside? ... Also, we have a youngster in the house...would her lungs be more at risk?..."

I can't give good specific advice on this issue, Lenarenee. I have no idea how much dust would get into a person's household air, since I don't know how each person uses these products. Speaking in general, I would be far more worried about a person who loves to use glitter or mica and makes soap pretty much daily in her home. I would not be overly concerned about a hobbyist soaper who uses a bit of mica once every few weeks to color soap batter for a swirl.

It is correct to be more concerned about exposure to children, speaking in general, since their respiratory systems are not as developed as an adult's is.

***

I want to raise another point. So far the discussion has been mostly about dealing with the dust after it is in the air, but prevention is another aspect of dealing with this problem. It's always easier to prevent a pollution problem than clean it up afterwards.

So ... can you think of ways to prevent the dust from getting in the air in the first place? For example, can you pre-mix your powdered colorants with glycerin and keep them in a squeeze bottle? Or purchase them pre-mixed so the dust issue is totally eliminated? Or maybe choose to not do the "dust and blow" thing to the top of your soap loaves?

I'm pretty clueless about why a lot of mica or other powders would get into the household air, since I don't use them much, but I am hoping those of you who do will have some good ideas about prevention.

 

[Cactuslily]

Anytime you are working with a potential airborn product, it's best to wear a mask. It's a cumulative thing over time I think. Once again, we air on the side of caution with protective gear.

 

[Cosmo]

"...Thankfully, smaller micron sizes are not as likely as larger mica particles to float in the air for long periods of time and get breathed in...."

That's an incorrect belief. Smaller particles remain airborne for much longer than larger particles. The general rule of thumb I was taught is that if you can see the particle, it's large enough to be relatively safe, assuming the material is inert, not a toxin. A healthy respiratory system can do a decent job of trapping and removing these larger particles. Very small particles around 10 microns and under, however, are nearly invisible. These are the particles that the respiratory system is not efficient at removing.

"...http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/...dard-Dust-Mask..."

This product is a nuisance dust mask that isn't rated for any kind of serious respiratory protection. For more information about choosing an effective respirator, see posts 12 and 20 in this thread -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=50259.

The other aspect y'all are not talking about is that even if you wear a respirator, at least some of the particles you are concerned about are STILL going to be floating around in the room air after you finish using your powders. It is true that the concentration of particles will be lower due to dilution in the general room air and due to the larger particles settling out, but if you don't want to inhale this stuff at all and you don't want to expose other members of your household to these particulates, then you need to be thinking about using better ventilation to physically remove the particulates from the room air as well as wearing an effective respirator. Or thinking about using the powders outdoors -- that will eliminate the issue of them getting into the room air.

I know from extensive experience that smaller particles are less likely to become airborne than larger particles regarding mica. So unless you're throwing your mica up into the air intentionally, or working with large amounts that may become airborne through typical work (such as repackaging large amounts into smaller amounts) the smaller particles are less likely to become airborne than larger particles. This is because the smaller the micron size is, the denser the mica becomes. Micas with larger particle sizes are much more likely to become airborne or "float" than smaller particles.

Unless you're working in an industrial environment that has Muscovite mica floating in the air consistently and is dense in the air a respirator is not necessary and a face mask will be just fine.

According to the CDC exposure limits for Muscovite mica are 20 million particles of mica per cubic foot of air averaged over 8 hours. That's a lot of mica. You can read the report here: LINK

 

[DeeAnna]

"...So unless you're throwing your mica up into the air intentionally..."

And that's very much the case. One way people use micas in soap is to sprinkle them on the top of their soap loaf and then blow off the excess. Check Google Images for "mica glitter soap" and see all the pics of mica-topped soaps that pop up. If "dust and blow" is not an effective way to get particulates into the air, I don't know what is. My point is that once these particles are airborne, smaller particles will remain airborne for much longer due to Brownian motion and natural and forced air convection, while larger particles tend to settle.

 

[Cosmo]

"...So unless you're throwing your mica up into the air intentionally..."

And that's very much the case. One way people use micas in soap is to sprinkle them on the top of their soap loaf and then blow off the excess. Check Google Images for "mica glitter soap" and see all the pics of mica-topped soaps that pop up. If "dust and blow" is not an effective way to get particulates into the air, I don't know what is. My point is that once these particles are airborne, smaller particles will remain airborne for much longer due to Brownian motion and natural and forced air convection, while larger particles tend to settle.

And even in that case it's not enough mica to justify wearing a respirator and a dust mask will be just fine.

 

[LBussy]

And even in that case it's not enough mica to justify wearing a respirator and a dust mask will be just fine.

And you are an environmental engineer? An ENT? Thoracic Surgeon? Representative of the EPA? Silica in the lungs is bad news and some people have been impacted by something as brief as a few weeks in the desert. Time and money spent on safety is the best investment we can make. If you wear a dust mask you might as well wear nothing at all.

 

[Cosmo]

And you are an environmental engineer? An ENT? Thoracic Surgeon? Representative of the EPA? Silica in the lungs is bad news and some people have been impacted by something as brief as a few weeks in the desert. Time and money spent on safety is the best investment we can make. If you wear a dust mask you might as well wear nothing at all.

No, I'm not, but I have a lot of common sense. Looking at the CDC guidelines and environmental exposure limits, it's clear that unless you're getting exposed to a lot of mica many hours a day, day after day, a respirator is not necessary.

If you want to be as careful as possible, there's no harm in that. However, things we put into our body everyday and things we're environmentally exposed to everyday carry more risk than the small exposure to mica that MOST soapmakers and hobbiests will experience. Might as well wear a respirator or everywhere you go in that case. Or whatever safety equipment is appropriate for the situation. I'm sure you get my point.

Are you an environmental engineer? An ENT? Thoracic Surgeon? Representative of the EPA? Also, if you have articles of people being impacted by silica in the desert that comes anywhere close to normal mica usage by the general soapmaker, please cite your sources. Otherwise, this could easily be considered fearmongering.

 

[DeeAnna]

Let's stop the finger pointing, folks. The essential point here is that some people are concerned about this issue and they want to wear respiratory protection. I want them to make good choices by giving sound information. A P100 respirator may be overkill for me, but for someone who might have respiratory issues or someone who makes a lot of soap and loves her mica-dusted soap loaves, it might be a wise investment. I would rather she spend $25 on a P100 respirator rather than $2 on a nuisance dust mask. Especially considering the P100 mask is hands-down the better choice to wear when mixing up lye solution for brief exposure to lye mist.

 

[Saponista]

I agree with deeanna's choice of respirator. That is what I use myself. I don't think any small particles are good for your lungs in large doses.

 

[luebella]

I really do appreciate the information given here

 

[songwind]

I've been thinking about that, now that I've been making larger batches more often. Looks like they're $16 on Amazon with a Prime membership. Probably worth it for the safety aspect.

 

[snappyllama]

I'm actually considering one for when I work with SLSA... Would that respirator be a good choice?

Right now I have a mask that I picked up at home depot. It does an okay job with keeping me from sneezing, but it still occasionally bugs me when I'm overly exuberant with mixing.

 

[DeeAnna]

A P100 particulate respirator would be a good choice for working with SLSA. The ones linked above would work fine.

 

[Steve85569]

I just got back to this thread. I seem to get distracted fairly easily. Something about glycerin rivers and low water/ high water soap i combo....

The reason I would err on the side of caution is very simple and may help put an end to some of the questions. I worked in construction for quite a few years and because of my "short term" and "casual" exposure to silicas and silicates I have level III COPD. Not a fun thing.

IF YOU HAVE A WAY TO REDUCE YOUR EXPOSURE DO IT!!!!


It is a matter of life and breath. The dust will not have an effect until it is too late to change the outcome. Please Please Please get and wear a good and dependable filter mask when dealing with mica!!

If you choose to not protect yourself then do it for those that love and care about you. It's real hard to see the look on DW's face when she catches me wheezing.

Steve

 

[luebella]

Would anyone happen to know if there is anywhere to buy pre mixed micas /oxides?

 

[snappyllama]

TKB has some. BB has lab colors. I haven't tried them out, but I have seen folks using them on videos.

 

[lenarenee]

I just got back to this thread. I seem to get distracted fairly easily. Something about glycerin rivers and low water/ high water soap i combo....

The reason I would err on the side of caution is very simple and may help put an end to some of the questions. I worked in construction for quite a few years and because of my "short term" and "casual" exposure to silicas and silicates I have level III COPD. Not a fun thing.

IF YOU HAVE A WAY TO REDUCE YOUR EXPOSURE DO IT!!!!


It is a matter of life and breath. The dust will not have an effect until it is too late to change the outcome. Please Please Please get and wear a good and dependable filter mask when dealing with mica!!

If you choose to not protect yourself then do it for those that love and care about you. It's real hard to see the look on DW's face when she catches me wheezing.

Steve

Thank you for sharing your experience Steve; and I'm sincerely sorry about the illness. My father worked in construction his whole life and also developed COPD. At first, after viewing the respirator on Amazon and freaking out over the size and appearance of it I was just going to blindly forget this issue. But then I remembered your post. I'll be ordering it - and USING it for micas and lye. Like you said..."the dust will not have an effect until it's too late to do anything about it". Your experience just might have saved me from future problems. Thank you.

 

[lenarenee]

A P100 particulate respirator would be a good choice for working with SLSA. The ones linked above would work fine.

DeeAnna, thank you for helping. It might be overkill, it might not - but I'm investing in the respirator. I'm also going to take the micas, and pre-mix them with oil or glycerin right there in the jars even though it will only make a thick paste - I can thin it down even more when needed for soaping.