Hold my hand as we explore the pigpen...(lard soap)

[soap_rat]

Hi, everyone:

I had a really bad experience with a tallow soap, but all the good stuff people have said about lard and tallow soaps has made me rethink them, and I want to try them (I think). But I still want to ask some questions.

People talk about how a "piggy" smell often/sometimes remains. If it's under 50% lard and I scent it at about 3%, does it ever still smell piggy? Does using tallow have its own scent issues or is it more scent-free? I have a very sensitive nose, especially when it comes to what's sitting on the skin right under my nose

I may HP the soap at 0 or 1% superfat and at the end of the cook add a non-animal fat as the SF. Will this reduce chances of piggy smell?

Does lard brand/quality ever affect the piggy smell? Is there something
I'd be able to detect before making the soap, like color or odor, that would warn me not to use that lard?

I was put off by the other chemicals in the one lard container I've seen in stores, is there a brand of lard that is just lard? (and what store carried it?) I think it's weird that olive oil is just olive oil, but they throw a little extra crap into the container of lard. Does anyone know why?

I'm vegetarian. I started making my own soap after I used a bar of soap, a hotel bar I'd saved for some time and then thought I would use. All I knew was I had a nasty, pungent odor on my face and when I looked up ingredients (it had sodium tallowate) I was horrified at the idea of rancid beef fat on my face. I guess the bar was completely rancid as I would have noticed spots of DOS. But then, maybe tallow has a really strong smell and the bar wasn't rancid at all? However here I've read threads about animal fat soaps for years, and no one else seems to have much of a problem with strong odor or rancidity (I think there was someone posting recently about DOS on her lard bars, and she was using the same brand as usual, some batches were DOSing and some weren't. I should look it up as I don't know if the problem was ever resolved).

If I could get just a little more reassurance that rancidity or strong odor isn't typical with animal fat, I'm just about ready to try it.

Thanks for reading all this, and my last question is, would I just replace my palm oil with lard, or are there any other recipe modifications I should do?

 

[coffeetime]

I recently made my first lard soap and used it at 40%. I scented at 3% with pink grapefruit EO and used a little red clay. It doesn't have a piggy or animal smell to it at all and it's about 6 weeks old. I've been using it in the shower since week two and it's a really nice bar.

I used lard from a local free range farm that didn't have any additives and really has a very mild smell to it.

 

[Obsidian]

I've only noticed a piggy smell in my 100% lard bars. I ended up rebatching them to add scent at 3% and it completely covered any lingering piggy.

 

[new12soap]

I use both lard and tallow, love them both. The only time there was any scent at all was when I was rendering the beef tallow and it smelled like cooking hamburgers. Maybe not the best aroma to a vegetarian, I understand, but not rancid or off. I do almost exclusively HP, I add all my oils up front and don't bother superfatting after the cook, and use fragrance at around 3%.

The store containers of lard contain a portion of hydrogenated lard. Think of it like you would using shortening, same principle and makes incredible soap. I am not completely sure (and I am sure someone will come along to correct me if I am wrong) but I believe the difference you mentioned between olive oil and lard has to do with saturated vs unsaturated fats. And... let's not even get into "adulterated" olive oil!

Yes, I would say replace the palm in a favorite recipe with either lard or tallow, all 3 have a very similar profile adding creaminess to soap.

As for the soap you saved, then smelled so bad... EWWWWW!!! I have no idea what happened there, but I find my soaps made with animal fats to be very very shelf-stable.

 

[lsg]

I think if you keep the lard at 30% or under, you will be fine. Leaf lard is the best lard, in my opinion.

 

[eyeroll]

Does using tallow have its own scent issues or is it more scent-free?

I agree with the previous poster who said the strongest scent with tallow is when it is rendering. I find it to be a rich but not unpleasant smell...but then I'm a very satisfied carnivore.

Rendered tallow has a rich, nutty smell to me. I notice it when I'm soaping, but the scent fades during cure, and that's with 85% tallow. If there's any odor left, it's a mild waxy odor, not offensive at all.

That hotel soap sound disgusting. No wonder you're concerned, but I think that was an aberration. I haven't noticed any rancidity and my tallow bars are my favorite bars. They're hard as a rock and my skin really loves them.

 

[Lin]

What is the "piggy" smell? Could anyone describe it?

I can't stand hotel bars and most commercial soap due to the perfumes added, they all smell god awful to me. Same with 'decorative' or fancy guest soap. Thats why I always used mildly then unscented body washes until I discovered handmade soap.

 

[Dennis]

Hi, everyone:

I was put off by the other chemicals in the one lard container I've seen in stores, is there a brand of lard that is just lard?

Hi soap_rat,

I use the aforementioned chemical laden lard from the grocery store and haven't had any problems at all. It contains BHA and citric acid, one a preservative, the other as (ahem) flavor enhancer. No smell at all when making soap with 50% lard and never have had DOS.
Sometimes I get the 7lb bottles of lard from Soapers Choice. Their listing only says "Lard", nothing about additives. Their beef tallow does express itself as additive free so perhaps you would want to email and ask about the lard. They are great at answering any questions. Both are priced the same if that matters. Maybe not, but just something I observed.
Finally, perhaps it would be worthwhile to skip on down to the grocery store and pick up a 1lb package off the shelf just for an experiment. Include it in a batch just as a test. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised. Keep in mind the additives are safe for consumption and some prefer to stay away but this is a version of "wax on, wax off". No ingestion and an easily acquired test sample. Let us know your results whatever path you travel.

Admittedly I am a raging carnivore. :mrgreen:
Dennis

 

[ilovesoap2]

Leaf lard is the best lard, in my opinion.

*gasps*
You use your leaf lard for soaping?

 

[coffeetime]

*gasps*

You use your leaf lard for soaping?

I know! That was my reaction too. Any leaf lard I get is carefully hoarded in the freezer for pastry.

 

[Lin]

I avoid BHA and BHT as preservatives in food.

 

[Susie]

What is the "piggy" smell? Could anyone describe it?

I can't stand hotel bars and most commercial soap due to the perfumes added, they all smell god awful to me. Same with 'decorative' or fancy guest soap. Thats why I always used mildly then unscented body washes until I discovered handmade soap.

I get that you are a vegetarian, but describing the smell might be like describing a rainbow to a person blind from birth.

It smells like cooked pork. That is the only explanation I can give you. Fry up a pork chop and smell it. That is the smell.

The good news is that if you use less than 85% lard and use any kind of EO at 3% you are going to cover the pork smell right up.

 

[Candybee]

I've been using Manteca lard from Wally's because I can buy it in a large bucket. It saves me money and makes great soap. I use 25% - 30% in my soap recipes that contain lard. I don't like using more than that because lard can significantly slow down trace in high amounts. The finished soap has no animal smell at all. As a matter of fact one of my best selling soaps is unscented and has 25% lard in it. The soap has a lovely "soap" scent you can only get with unscented soaps like Ivory.

The only piggy or lard smell I get is when I am heating it up. Liquified lard has a slight smell but its not strong at all. When I add my liquified lard to my other melted oils I can no longer smell it. Same with tallow. I buy my tallow from ED and don't get any smell from it at all except a very slight beef fat smell when its first liquified after heating it. In the finished soap you can't smell it at all-- scented or unscented.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...It smells like cooked pork. That is the only explanation I can give you. Fry up a pork chop and smell it. That is the smell...."

Oh, is THAT what soapmakers mean by "piggy"??? :shifty:

I always have wondered.

I grew up doing chores with my grandfather on his hog farm, and I've worked with my two brothers on their hog farms as an adult. I even had a pet pig (800 lb sow) as a kid. I know what ~I~ mean by "piggy", and lard soap has never, never, never, ever remotely smelled like that.

I doubt that anyone, even granddaughters of pig farmers, would make lard soap if it truly smelled like pigs.

To me, lard soap smells no worse and no better than soap made without lard. Occasionally I will get a whiff of the warm, sweetish fatty odor that Susie describes, but, honestly, freshly made beer soap smells far more objectionable! I have to say I am probably biased, however. When I do smell the scent of lard, it triggers lovely memories of helping my grandmother render lard and make lard soap when I was a little girl. To me, that smell is associated with good times, so I find the lard smell pleasant rather than offensive. Like Candybee, it smells like "soap" to me. Obviously I'm in the minority, I gather.

Anyways, getting back to the point -- I think the amount of heating has something to do with how much lard odor is produced. For example, I recently made a hot-process shaving soap with lard, and I remember distinctly smelling that scent toward the end of the cook. The odor faded to a faint trace when the soap cooled. The soap has been curing for a week, and I'm not picking up any of the scent now.

 

[mel z]

Okay, I hate to chime in here, but I have to.

I have a lifetime supply of soap now, and now my friends do too, because of me. As all know, I have allergies. I can tell you that those allergies got worse with age, now skin and nasal.

With those allergies, and not being able to use FO's, not that they would help, but FO's burn like hello. So if you wear perfume, know that when I put up a kleenex and turn away from you, then dab my eyes, it is not you, it is your perfume or deodorant or hairspray, and the longer you sit there, the less I can breathe. No offense to anyone, it just hurts. I can't walk down the laundry isle in the grocery store or the soap isle, I can't walk into a clothing store without instant burning from dustmites in carpet, it is bad. Burning walls of invisible fire to eyes, nose and throat.

That being said:

No matter how much EO (that I am not allergic to), and no matter the age of soap, be it years, I can smell the pig. I can also smell the beef, the olive, you name it. It is worse in the shower when the soap is warm. I throw soap away because it smells of olive, or lard, or whatever, after a few uses. And I am not at the worst point yet in sensitivity. Some are even worse. (I want a giant plastic renewable bubble wrap ball to live in, just so I can pop the bubbles sometimes, hehehe. Really, I need a hamster ball to live in.)

Some people just smell things more closely than others, some taste more closely than others, regardless allergies or not. I can smell even the tallow in store bought Ivory. You know that stuff is milled, remilled, de-odified, sat for years. Sigh.

 

[Susie]

Wow, you seriously have my sympathies. I have just hit nasal allergies after about 20 years of skin/eczema issues. It is miserable. I can only imagine what you are going through.

 

[Lin]

DeAnna, I think you and I have the same definition for piggy smell. I'm glad to know thats NOT what they mean by the smell of lard soap!

Mel: my allergies and asthma have worsened with age too. I can't stand when people wear perfume or cologne, instant headache and nausea for me. Same with going anywhere near the detergent isle at the store. I turned to handmade soap after getting furious over becoming allergic to the hypoallergenic wash and cream my dermatologist had me on, and slathering steroid all over twice a day still not enough to slow the itching that made me want to take a cheese grater to my limbs. I'd have done it... If they didn't already look like I'd taken a cheese grater to them.

 

[MzMolly65]

I've been using Manteca lard from Wally's because I can buy it in a large bucket.

I wondered about Manteca when I saw it for sale but it had so many ingredients in it I didn't think it could be used like lard.

How's that soap turning out for you and do you just put lard in the soap calculator?

 

[Obsidian]

Eww, I can't even imagine how nasty soap would be if lard smelled like a actual pig lol. I'm quite sensitive to the scent of lard but I don't find it objectionable, just not a scent I care for in my soap. Its a very mild cooked pork scent and is easily covered.

Manteca is lard, its just a different name. I use the brand with the additives and I have no issues with it. One thing about lard is it slows trace so it makes a good choice if you want to do swirls and what not.

 

[Dennis]

I wondered about Manteca when I saw it for sale but it had so many ingredients in it I didn't think it could be used like lard.

Manteca is simply lard in spanish.

Spanish: Manteca
Meaning: lard

http://www.mexicoguru.com/mexican-slang-meaning.php?date=121026