Hard Vinegar Soap

[DeeAnna]

I’m with soapmaker’s comment above, what is the benefit of a bar made with vinegar? Nanditasr states that it lasts longer, but how is it on the skin? Is the pH lower? What are the actual benefits?

Did y'all read Post #1?

Cmzaha wrote: "...If anyone wonders really wonders if water replacement with vinegar and the extra NaOH to react the vinegar makes a hard soap, the answer is unequivocally yes...."

 

[Nanditasr]

I’m with soapmaker’s comment above, what is the benefit of a bar made with vinegar? Nanditasr states that it lasts longer, but how is it on the skin? Is the pH lower? What are the actual benefits?

I don't expect the pH to change, since we are adding extra lye to compensate. I have found no difference in how it feels on the skin. The benefit I see is in the hardness -- I can't stand those squelchy bars!

 

[penelopejane]

Try different percentages of vinegar and work out what works for you.

 

[Veggiebin]

Thank you Nanditasr, that answered my questions.

 

[Rune]

Will vinegar influence the lather in some way? Will it transform to a chelating agent in the same way as citric acid and lye? Will it replace sodium lactate?

Vinegar is very country specific, I see. We have 7% as standard, Sweden 12% and United States 5%. If I try vinegar, I will buy the 35% vinegar essence and dillute it down to 5% for easy maths.

 

[Nanditasr]

Will vinegar influence the lather in some way? Will it transform to a chelating agent in the same way as citric acid and lye? Will it replace sodium lactate?

Lather: Because we are neutralizing the vinegar with excess lye, we are getting a salt -- maybe that reduces the lather slightly? I have not observed any obvious decrease in lather.

Chelation: I think @DeeAnna has covered this in detail in some post, and also on her website. The chemistry of citric acid is different from that of vinegar. As I recall, citric acid (or sodium citrate) are chelating agents; vinegar (acetic acid resulting in acetate), not truly one.

Vinegar is very country specific, I see. We have 7% as standard, Sweden 12% and United States 5%. If I try vinegar, I will buy the 35% vinegar essence and dillute it down to 5% for easy maths.

Actually, I do not know if there is a standard in India. However, I procure mine from a chemicals store, and he says it's 100% pure and asks me to mix it 1:49 in order to achieve store-bought strength. Therefore, I find this very convenient -- I need just a few millilitres of the strong stuff to do the job (I do the calculation), while I can use any other liquid of choice (herbal decoctions, juices or milk).

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

Since my math skills are non-existent, could someone check this for me and let me know if I am on the right track before I make this batch and mess it up completely? A recipe calling for 6.2 oz of lye, 12.4 oz water (make this easy to figure) and I want to replace some of the water with 5% vinegar ---

Then 56 g of vinegar x 0.357 = 61.8 additional grams of lye are needed. Is this correct? I can add this to my cheat sheet and continue on my search for a bar that does not melt while sitting in the shower.

 

[DeeAnna]

Whoa, Nelly! The conversion is basically this -- 1 oz by weight (28 g) of commercial 5% vinegar neutralizes 1 g NaOH. If you use 2 ounces of 5% vinegar, you only need 2 more grams of NaOH. not 61.8.

"...56 g of vinegar x 0.357 = 61.8 additional grams of lye are needed. Is this correct?..."

The conversion is 0.0357. You need to add a zero after the decimal.
And check your multiplication too -- 56 X 0.357 is not equal to 61.8.

 

[shunt2011]

No, you only need 2 gm of lye added. see here

https://classicbells.com/soap/aceticAcid.html

oops,DeeAnna beat me to it.

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

Thank you so much, I was getting really confused. Probably over thinking it. I took the 2 oz of vinegar * 28 to get grams (56) then took the original amount of lye * .357 to get the 61.8, not sure how I came up with that part - again, over thinking and causing confusion. So then to set this straight, since I am using 2 oz vinegar I need to increase by 2 grams of lye, bringing my total lye from 173 to 175 or 6.25 oz (175/28=6.25). Am I closer?

 

[zolveria]

To me the down fall is the adding more lye. So that it does not cancel out the alkaline. It hard enough to find lye. At the rate I use it. And shipping to east coast is pain in my heart. I would HAVE to try a bar b4 I invest any more lye

I may have to try this. It sounds like you can replace all water or some portion of water. I think I will try with some portion of my water replaced with the vinegar to see if the soap is something we might like.

Of any one can kindly send me a vinegar bar and how long the cure time was I would greatly appreciated.

 

[DeeAnna]

...since I am using 2 oz vinegar I need to increase by 2 grams of lye, bringing my total lye from 173 to 175 or 6.25 oz (175/28=6.25). Am I closer?

Yes, although I'd just measure out 175 grams rather than convert back and forth from ounces to grams and back to ounces again. The 28 grams = 1 oz is convenient to remember, but it's not terribly accurate, so the more times you convert, the more error you introduce. If you start in grams and stick with grams, there is less error.

To me the down fall is the adding more lye. ... It hard enough to find lye. At the rate I use it....

I don't understand. You live in the US, NaOH isn't all that expensive in the states, and the added NaOH that's needed to react with vinegar is relatively small.

Why not make a 500 gram test batch with vinegar andyour preferred recipe and see for yourself? Don't you ever do that?

If you test someone else's bar with vinegar, you'll never know how the vinegar changes the soap, because you won't have a control bar.

And even if someone would send you a control (non vinegar) bar as well as a vinegar-based bar, you still won't know how vinegar will perform with your soap recipe and soaping technique.