penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Has anyone used or heard of Glyceryl Stearate Citrate Emulsifying Wax being used in CP soap? It is palm free and non-GMO. I was wondering if it might act like Stearic Acid.
Glyceryl Stearate Citrate
- Thread starter penelopejane
- Start date
Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Glyceryl Stearate Citrate Emulsifying Wax is used in lotion making as a co-emulsifier.
I have not used it in CP, but I don't use stearic acid in soap either. Never found the need. Unless you just have some sitting around that you'd like to use up, I'm wondering why not just use stearic acid?
I have not used it in CP, but I don't use stearic acid in soap either. Never found the need. Unless you just have some sitting around that you'd like to use up, I'm wondering why not just use stearic acid?
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Because the stearic acid that I can easily access is made from palm oil and Glyceryl Stearate Citrate is palm free and non GMO - both of which are important to me.
Do you think it would possibly act like Stearic acid in CP soap?
Do you think it would possibly act like Stearic acid in CP soap?
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Your guess is as good as mine, PJ.
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Hmmm so annoying. I am clueless when it comes to chemistry (not even sure that that is what it takes to answer this question). Don’t really want to waste money on it but it sort of sounds good on paper. I can’t find any reference to it being used in CP soap though and if it was an easy palm free alternative to Stearic acid surely others would use it.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for your time.
Last edited:
Yeah, I think you need a chemist's answer for this. Although I'm a chemical engineer, not a chemist, I'll take a stab at it and see if the other chemist types agree with me.
It looks like the stearic acid used to make glyceryl stearate citrate (GSC) is sourced from various vegetable fats -- including palm. One manufacturer clearly states the stearic acid in their GSC is sourced from palm oil. Using palm-derived stearic to manufacture GSC makes a lot of sense from an economic point of view, so your supplier needs to clearly say their GSC is palm free. If they do not, you should not assume it is palm free.
GSC can be saponified, although each GSC molecule is roughly equivalent to a monoglyceride or diglyceride fat -- a fat with only 1 or 2 stearic acid chains hooked onto the glycerin backbone. We normally saponify triglyceride fats -- fats with 3 fatty acids connected to the glycerin. It looks like some manufacturers produce various grades -- some grades of GSC are mostly monoglycerides and other grades are roughly half mono and half diglycerides.
According to one supplier, the KOH sap value for their GSC is 230-260 mg/g. That's an NaOH sap value of 164-185. Source: http://www.petercremerna.com/products/689687521
It looks like the stearic acid used to make glyceryl stearate citrate (GSC) is sourced from various vegetable fats -- including palm. One manufacturer clearly states the stearic acid in their GSC is sourced from palm oil. Using palm-derived stearic to manufacture GSC makes a lot of sense from an economic point of view, so your supplier needs to clearly say their GSC is palm free. If they do not, you should not assume it is palm free.
GSC can be saponified, although each GSC molecule is roughly equivalent to a monoglyceride or diglyceride fat -- a fat with only 1 or 2 stearic acid chains hooked onto the glycerin backbone. We normally saponify triglyceride fats -- fats with 3 fatty acids connected to the glycerin. It looks like some manufacturers produce various grades -- some grades of GSC are mostly monoglycerides and other grades are roughly half mono and half diglycerides.
According to one supplier, the KOH sap value for their GSC is 230-260 mg/g. That's an NaOH sap value of 164-185. Source: http://www.petercremerna.com/products/689687521
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Hi DeeAnna,
Thank you.
Do you think it would be a substitute for stearic acid in soap?
Would you use it at the same rate as stearic acid?
So I would add it to the list of fats in the soap calc the same way I would so stearic acid?
I can get the MSDS to work out the sap value.
This supplier states palm free and non GMO sourced from europe. They are pretty reliable and have all the certifications etc.
https://shop.newdirections.com.au/e.../Shops/newdirections/Products/RMSW100GLYSTCIT
Thank you.
Do you think it would be a substitute for stearic acid in soap?
Would you use it at the same rate as stearic acid?
So I would add it to the list of fats in the soap calc the same way I would so stearic acid?
I can get the MSDS to work out the sap value.
This supplier states palm free and non GMO sourced from europe. They are pretty reliable and have all the certifications etc.
https://shop.newdirections.com.au/e.../Shops/newdirections/Products/RMSW100GLYSTCIT
No, it's definitely not a substitute for stearic acid. GSC is more like a regular fat rather than it is like a fatty acid. I'd probably treat it more like fully hydrogenated soy oil (aka soy wax), except GSC has a much higher sap value than soy wax.
Saponification values are not given on MSDS sheets, which are documents for safety and emergency related issues. Sap values don't have any bearing on safety. I already provided one sap value in my previous post. Here are several others, all for the same CAS 55840-13-6, which is the identifier for glyceryl stearate citrate. All but the Cossma tech sheet provide similar sap values, so in the absence of better data, I'd throw out the Cossma sap value and work with the others.
http://www.makingcosmetics.com/certificate-of-analysis/coa-glyceryl-stearate-citrate.pdf
https://biokhim.com/data2/Akoline_LC_PDS.pdf
https://www.cossma.com/fileadmin/all/cossma/Archiv/ProductInfo/COS1604_70Blanova_Muls_ECO_2277.pdf
And here's a brief technical spec sheet for the specific product I think you're looking at --
https://www.dr-straetmans.de/en/products/dermofeel-gsc-palm-oil-free/
At $49.50 AUS for 1 kg, GSC is quite expensive compared to stearic acid at $9.90 AUS per 1 kg. I'd be surprised to see a big wave of soapmakers who want to use GSC in soap as an alternative to palm oil or palm-based stearic. Maybe a few will make the switch, however, if you do some trials and can report that it works well in soap. I sure hope it works for you, since I know palm-free is important to you.
Saponification values are not given on MSDS sheets, which are documents for safety and emergency related issues. Sap values don't have any bearing on safety. I already provided one sap value in my previous post. Here are several others, all for the same CAS 55840-13-6, which is the identifier for glyceryl stearate citrate. All but the Cossma tech sheet provide similar sap values, so in the absence of better data, I'd throw out the Cossma sap value and work with the others.
http://www.makingcosmetics.com/certificate-of-analysis/coa-glyceryl-stearate-citrate.pdf
https://biokhim.com/data2/Akoline_LC_PDS.pdf
https://www.cossma.com/fileadmin/all/cossma/Archiv/ProductInfo/COS1604_70Blanova_Muls_ECO_2277.pdf
And here's a brief technical spec sheet for the specific product I think you're looking at --
https://www.dr-straetmans.de/en/products/dermofeel-gsc-palm-oil-free/
At $49.50 AUS for 1 kg, GSC is quite expensive compared to stearic acid at $9.90 AUS per 1 kg. I'd be surprised to see a big wave of soapmakers who want to use GSC in soap as an alternative to palm oil or palm-based stearic. Maybe a few will make the switch, however, if you do some trials and can report that it works well in soap. I sure hope it works for you, since I know palm-free is important to you.
Last edited:
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Since stearic acid is used to harden soap, why not keep things simple and eliminate it all together? You can use ordinary table salt to accomplish the same thing. As the Soap Queen says in this Palm Free Soap tutorial, "Why salt water solution? Simple! It makes for a harder bar of soap."
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
I use lots of salt in my soap already.
I find that after a few days my soap that is in the kitchen and used 8-10 times a day gets soft. Other soap that’s allowed to dry out for a day after s shower is fine.
I am trying to counter the kitchen soap mush. I don’t like vinegar. Maybe bicarb will work. I am testing that.
Last edited:
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Thank you for those ideas and the se links. I will read through them.
You are right about the cost. Maybe that is a barrier for others too. I might get some and test it against the pure stearic. I’ll read your links first.
There doesn’t seem to be a supplier of pal free stearic in Oz. It prohibitive to import from the UK because of postage cost - which I’m sure aren’t as high as the supplier requires you to pay!
Last edited:
Soap Queen and you seem to equate a hard soap as being a long lasting soap, and that's not a valid conclusion.
I agree salt does make soap harder as in hard like a rock. Stearic and palmitic acids also add physical hardness. That's all true.
But that's only part of the solution, however. For a long lasting soap, you want physical hardness AND low water solubility. You can only build those qualities in a soap by increasing the stearic and palmitic acid content.
