GLDA, a modern alternative to EDTA

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by SaltedFig, Mar 5, 2019.

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  1. Mar 5, 2019 #1

    SaltedFig

    SaltedFig

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    I posted this information in another thread, but I'm placing the information here so it can be easily found.

    EDTA
    EDTA, created in 1935, is a persistant organic pollutant (or POP).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_organic_pollutant

    EDTA is not biodegradeable, is fossil-fuel based, is resistant to removal in sewerage treatment, is able to mobilize heavy metals in the environment and is toxic to aquatic life ... definitely not "crunchy"

    There is an alternative:

    GLDA

    The L form of Tetrasodium glutamate diacetate, or GLDA, is based on renewable materials (fermented sugar), functions across a wider pH range, matches or exceeds EDTA in controlling soap scum and is readily biodegradeable.
    (It is also being researched for use as a micronutrient)

    GLDA is sold under the trade names of Dissolvine-GL and BioPure GLDA

    From the BioPure pdf:
    Biopure™ GLDA is a 1:1 Replacement for EDTA •GLDA works as well as EDTA, if not better, as seen in testing for Calcium Sequestration Values at a pH of 11 and 27oC. Calcium Sequestration is the process of binding or confining calcium ions to separate them from other components of a biological system.

    From the Dissolvine-GL website:
    GLDA is free from genetically modified raw materials and is not irritating to skin or eyes. It is suitable to be used in personal care and cosmetics to chelate calcium and transition metal ions

    https://chelates.nouryon.com/products/dissolvine/dissolvine-gl/
    https://www.jarchem.com/portfolio/biopure-glda/
    https://files.constantcontact.com/ca75b1e0701/ee373c36-f92d-44e8-9577-35e3c144a179.pdf
    http://www.subsport.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AkzoNobel_Gl_Technical_brochure_tcm108-40030.pdf

    This was posted as an alternative to EDTA.

    (For a more natural chelator, Sodium citrate is often suggested, which can be purchased, or made by reacting citric acid with sodium hydroxide, or ... for the adventurous, adding lemon juice, with sufficient NaOH to counter it's acidic action, to your soap :)).
     
  2. Mar 5, 2019 #2

    reeeen4

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    Mmmm interesting, have you tried it? has anyone tried it on here?
     
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  3. Mar 5, 2019 #3

    Susie

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    This is quite interesting. However, since it is derived from MSG, does anyone know how likely it is to trigger reactions in people who are sensitive to MSG (migraines and/or taking MAOI)?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  4. Mar 6, 2019 #4

    SaltedFig

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    They are claiming that it does not cause a reaction on skin (in the first link):
    Produced from monosodium L-glutamic acid (MSG), which is a biobased naturally occurring amino acid, GLDA is readily biodegradable and offers high solubility over a wide pH range. It does not sensitize human skin, provides enhanced biocidal boosting power and improved biodegradability properties.

    It is approved by your FDA for use in food too, so there must be some tests around on human ingestion (referencing the MSG point) ... but I agree - testing is in order.

    I've found a supplier here of the pre-diluted product, so now I'm on the hunt for a powder version for testing.

    (It look like it's manufactured in America, so it might be easier for you all to get hold of there :))
     
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  5. Mar 6, 2019 #5

    IrishLass

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    Thanks for sharing! Sounds promising- both a chelator and a biocide, just like tetrasodium EDTA? Once my tetrasodium EDTA is gone, I will be on the lookout for it.


    IrishLass :)
     
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  6. Mar 6, 2019 #6

    Susie

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    Me, too. I have some tetrasodium EDTA left, but not much. I will look for it ASAP. If anyone finds it, can you please post the info on this thread? Also, please post any testing you do with it. TIA!
     
  7. Mar 6, 2019 #7

    reeeen4

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    Oh if you find any in Australia (I see your from Australia too) please let me know I'm very interested too :)
     
  8. Mar 6, 2019 #8

    shunt2011

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    I'd be interested as well. Sounds like a really great alternative.
     
  9. Mar 6, 2019 #9

    Clarice

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    I have sent emails to each of the suppliers asking where these products are sold. If / when I receive a response I will share the information. @Susie, one of them is in Plano - Viachem - don't know how close that is to you in your great state of Texas!
     
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  10. Mar 7, 2019 #10

    SaltedFig

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    This website that gives a brief description of the biocidal action of GLDA.

    Image source: https://www.brenntag.com/uk-ireland...ervation-boosting-with-dissolvine-gl-47-s.jsp

    upload_2019-3-8_7-4-33.png

    (Dissolvine-47-S is 47% tetrasodium GLDA in solution)

    According to this Dissolvine brochure, the product code for the micro-granular (or dry) form of tetrasodium GLDA is "GL-PD-S"
     
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  11. Mar 7, 2019 #11

    IrishLass

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    Sweet! Thank you SaltedFig! The cool thing that I've always liked about using the tetrasodium EDTA is that not only does it help my soap lather better in my hard water and cut down on soap scum, but it's also a DOS preventative and a preservative booster. Now I'm curious if it will perform just as well as my tetrasodium EDTA does when used at the same low usage rate at which I use it: .5% per total weight of my soap batches and @ .2% in my lotion (along with .8% phenonip). Hmmmm.......


    IrishLass :)
     
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  12. Mar 11, 2019 #12

    SaltedFig

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    Fantastic Clarice, thank-you! :)

    If anyone is interested in forming a test collaborative here in Australia, please send me an expression of interest - if there are enough, it might be worthwhile setting up a single purchase to distribute for testing :)
     
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  13. May 5, 2019 #13

    KiwiSoap

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    Many thanks to SaltedFig for introducing us to GLDA, I'm wondering if anyone found any further information or a source for GLDA?
     
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  14. May 5, 2019 #14

    SaltedFig

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    Welcome! ... It's nice just to be able to find a biodegradeable alternative (EDTA is considered an environmental pollutant), but from what I've discovered so far, it is reputed to function even better than EDTA (and can be simply substituted on a one-for-one basis in any recipe that uses EDTA) ... double-bonus! :)

    I have found a large supplier in Australia and spoke to someone on the sales (management) team, but with all of the holidays we've had just recently, they were on skeleton crew when I called, so I'll get back onto that next week. I've got a small list of people to send some too locally (if/when I get some). Not sure how it would go sending a sample over the ditch (import/export laws on chemicals n all - I'd have to look that up first).

    What I will do is ask the Aussie supplier when I talk to them - they might be part of a larger group, and if they are, I'll scoot you the Kiwi contact details via PM.
     
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  15. May 5, 2019 #15

    KiwiSoap

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    Wow, that would be brilliant if you could find that information! You'd think with EDTA's status that there would be efforts to get users to change over to the eco-friendly alternative. Many thanks again for your information and efforts!
     
  16. May 5, 2019 #16

    earlene

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  17. May 5, 2019 #17

    Rune

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    Oh no, @SaltedFig! :mad: ;) I wish you did not write this, or at least that I did not read it, because I have ordered EDTA a week ago or so, and it is in the postal system somewhere right now. If I knew this I would have just continued turning my citric acid into sodium citrate.

    Well, well, since it probably is just as toxic to throw it away somewhere, I think I will just use it and order sodium citrate next time. But I do suspect that bag of EDTA will last for centuries before I finally have managed to empty it.
     
  18. May 5, 2019 #18

    earlene

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    Yes, I don't foresee running out of my bag of EDTA for some time to come. Especially since I've begun to realize we have way too much soap and even my SIL is giving it away now, too.
     
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  19. May 5, 2019 #19

    Arimara

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    O_O you have a lot of soap, ma'am.
     
  20. May 7, 2019 #20

    reeeen4

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    Ooooh I'm interested in getting some of this too!!
     

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