gell vs. non-gell

[CaliChan]

what are the pros of not jelling? I've been wondering this for awhile now. i like to decorate the tops of my soaps and it always gets messed up in some way when i insulate it.
I know gelling makes it saponify faster so why wouldn't you do it (aside from my issue of the top getting messed up)

 

[RocknRoll]

One pro for not gelling is that I just stick my mold in the freezer for 2 hours and then put it in the fridge for another few hours or overnight . Vs. Gelling : For some reason my new plastic log molds dont like to retain heat (not like my wooded log molds did) therefore, i tend to get a partial jell if i just leave pour and leave my soap to heat & gell on its own. Now I have to babysit it with a heat matt. I like to do swirly tops and it sucks while Im trying to gell because my recipe goes all the way to the top and beyond the mold so I cant put a lid on and wrap with towels like normal. So, ya...thats my big pro VS. con with gelling and not gelling. I choose which soaps to gell, especially if I want more vibrant colors.

 

[melstan775]

my recipe goes all the way to the top and beyond the mold so I cant put a lid on and wrap with towels like normal. So, ya...thats my big pro VS. con with gelling and not gelling. I choose which soaps to gell, especially if I want more vibrant colors.

Do you have an identical mold you could flip and put on top of the mold? you would have to put it somewhere it wouldn't get disturbed because you don't want it to fall though.

 

[andoy]

I like hot process method as I know the soap is cooked well before adding the super fat. So more expensive oils have their full effect. Some people go for adding these oils at trace, but no guarantee that it won't all saponify ahead of the cheaper oils (not absolute guarantee with hot process, but more likely than cold process). Also as mentioned cures super quick. I sometimes take out of the mould in a few hours and cut later that day. Dries pretty quick too

Some disadvantages are:

• you can't use an intricate mould or designs based around pouring
• you have to work quick, specially if your doing multiple colours
• sometimes when the paste can expand like a soufle. So I like to cover the mould with wax paper and something on top.
• more likely to get air, but careful pouring and a bit of robust banging... though rustic look is a plus and minus (I quite like it and you can get an interesting lava flow look)
• obviously a bit more cooking time and electricity/gas or whatever you use. CP you can use the heat of lye solution to melt hard soaps if you chop them up before hand.

 

[Yukari]

One pro for not gelling is that I just stick my mold in the freezer for 2 hours and then put it in the fridge for another few hours or overnight

how is your soap after put it out of the freezer/fridge step?
cause i put my soaps in the freezer overnight only a couple of time, and when i put them out they were like melting on my table.. i was freaking out and didn't know what to do! but in the end they did well...
but i wonder: is this the standard procedure? can i avoid this somehow? :think:

my non-gelled soaps are more pastel and mattified colors (also brighter), i really like it! :smile:

 

[CaliChan]

I like hot process method as I know the soap is cooked well before adding the super fat. So more expensive oils have their full effect. Some people go for adding these oils at trace, but no guarantee that it won't all saponify ahead of the cheaper oils (not absolute guarantee with hot process, but more likely than cold process). Also as mentioned cures super quick. I sometimes take out of the mould in a few hours and cut later that day. Dries pretty quick too

Some disadvantages are:

• you can't use an intricate mould or designs based around pouring
• you have to work quick, specially if your doing multiple colours
• sometimes when the paste can expand like a soufle. So I like to cover the mould with wax paper and something on top.
• more likely to get air, but careful pouring and a bit of robust banging... though rustic look is a plus and minus (I quite like it and you can get an interesting lava flow look)
• obviously a bit more cooking time and electricity/gas or whatever you use. CP you can use the heat of lye solution to melt hard soaps if you chop them up before hand.

Ive been considering trying that but doesnt it take several hours?
I have two small children so i do most of my soaping after they go down for the night. It normally takes me like 6 hours to cook my liquid soap, and it just seems like a huge chore to me instead of a hobby (mainly cause it means up up till 2 am or later)

 

[squigglz]

Ive been considering trying that but doesnt it take several hours?
I have two small children so i do most of my soaping after they go down for the night. It normally takes me like 6 hours to cook my liquid soap, and it just seems like a huge chore to me instead of a hobby (mainly cause it means up up till 2 am or later)

My soap has never taken longer than a half hour to finish cooking. I do HP exclusively, and also soap at night after my son goes to bed. He goes down at 7pm, and my soap is in the mold by 8pm. The thing that takes the longest is melting the hard oils down, because I do my HP in a crockpot.

 

[andoy]

sodium soaps cook a lot quicker than potassium soaps. I find they gel within an hour in low heat. Often only takes 30 mins. Time it takes will depend on temp, mixing, which oils and other ingredients you use (e.g. things like Castor oil, honey will speed it up a lot). Getting the gloopey paste in the mould is not as elegant as pouring soap at thick trace. So bit of banging the mould (I put towel on my counter and tap my mould on that to avoid too much noise)

I know the feeling of standing over cooking liquid soaps until they are completely clear gel, that will produce clear liquid soap. I usually cook potassium soaps on slow cooker for 99 mins in a double boiler (my cooker only goes up to that), the ambient heat after continues the process overnight. Then I recommence cooking the following day after breaking up and stirring the paste.

 

[squigglz]

Forgot to mention: there are also ways to make the consistency of the soap thinner so it's easier to color and pour and whatnot. When I add sugar to the lye water and up the water percentage a bit, I'm able to do swirls and all the other fun stuff cold process lets you do. I managed a salt bar with swirls using hot process with those adjustments.

 

[RocknRoll]

Do you have an identical mold you could flip and put on top of the mold? you would have to put it somewhere it wouldn't get disturbed because you don't want it to fall though.

OMG! Yes I do! I would have never thought of doing that, thanks for the tip, I will be sure to do that next time!

 

[andoy]

that's a good tip squigglz... I tried to do a HP salt bar the other day. What a disaster it was. I ended up with clumps that didn't stick together!

 

[RocknRoll]

how is your soap after put it out of the freezer/fridge step?
cause i put my soaps in the freezer overnight only a couple of time, and when i put them out they were like melting on my table.. i was freaking out and didn't know what to do! but in the end they did well...
but i wonder: is this the standard procedure? can i avoid this somehow? :think:

my non-gelled soaps are more pastel and mattified colors (also brighter), i really like it! :smile:

After taking it out of the freezer, I make sure the soap mold is cool to the touch (i feel the bottom) and if its cool then i transfer it to the fridge. After a couple hours its firm enough to press on and has hardened up.

When im sure its cool, i take it out of the fridge and then I just leave it sitting at my soaping station (room temp). At this point it "looks" hard enough to cut but I dont dare. By morning its solid all the way through but I have to be careful when handling the edges cuz they can be a little bit soft but not bad. I should prolly wait a little longer before unmolding and cutting but I can never wait to see the inside! Hope this helps :grin:

PS~ I think your soap is "melting" because it was frozen solid and then thawed. I never freeze mine all the way, just enough to stop the gelling process.

 

[squigglz]

that's a good tip squigglz... I tried to do a HP salt bar the other day. What a disaster it was. I ended up with clumps that didn't stick together!

My first salt bar was like that-it was a total mess! I mostly blame the fact that I didn't realize exactly HOW fast it sets up and spent too much time futzing about with colors and stuff, so by the time I got it in the mold it was already crumbling. I saved those bars for myself-they still work as soap, they're just...not at all pretty and little chunks fall off periodically, haha.

I got the sugar tip from someone on this forum, actually-I forget who, though Sorry, whoever you were! I do 3lb batches for the most part, and add about a tablespoon of sugar to the water before adding the lye (make sure it's fully dissolved before adding the lye. FULLY dissolved). I up the water content by 5%, so 43% of the weight of the oils instead of the standard 38%. It's worked really well for me so far ^_^

 

[Yukari]

After taking it out of the freezer, I make sure the soap mold is cool to the touch (i feel the bottom) and if its cool then i transfer it to the fridge. After a couple hours its firm enough to press on and has hardened up.

When im sure its cool, i take it out of the fridge and then I just leave it sitting at my soaping station (room temp). At this point it "looks" hard enough to cut but I dont dare. By morning its solid all the way through but I have to be careful when handling the edges cuz they can be a little bit soft but not bad. I should prolly wait a little longer before unmolding and cutting but I can never wait to see the inside! Hope this helps :grin:

PS~ I think your soap is "melting" because it was frozen solid and then thawed. I never freeze mine all the way, just enough to stop the gelling process.

they were squishy, not totally melted but cannot move them. so i let by themself for a day or two, once solified i proceded with the cut. Now they look like regular soaps (i did that on soaper friend's advice, who always use this method)
anyway your last sentence will be impressed in my mind! thank you for the advice!

 

[RocknRoll]

they were squishy, not totally melted but cannot move them. so i let by themself for a day or two, once solified i proceded with the cut. Now they look like regular soaps (i did that on soaper friend's advice, who always use this method)
anyway your last sentence will be impressed in my mind! thank you for the advice!

Your welcome. Let us know if it helps! :-D

 

[2lilboots]

I do not gel my cupcake soaps. I let them sit out on the counter overnight. The only decorated soap I had problems with gelling was a soap I made with lard(I don't use lard anymore). I insulate all my soaps that I put in my wooden mold to force gel even my goats milk soaps. I like the nice hard bar and the colors that I get from gelling. When I would try to keep my wooden mold soaps from gelling I always had a partial gel and/or a crack on the surface of the soap. I don't put my soaps in the fridge or freezer there isn't enough space in there for the food as it is, let alone soap molds.