Gel Without Overheating

[HorseCreek]

I would like to gel my soaps. Seemingly they are harder and can be unmolded/cut sooner than the ungelled loaves. I was having a problem with all my soaps overheating, so I started soaping at cooler temps than I was. Now, they don't gel. Some don't even gel with a towel wrapped around them, and I had one wrapped in a towel start to crack on me ( it was a citrus FO). Any ideas on how I can get the full gel without overheating? Do certain recipes (not including FO's/EO's I know they factor in also) gel better than others? I have an OO, Coconut Oil, Palm Oil, Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Avocado Oil, Castor Oil recipe. Thanks!

Oh, I have mainly log molds made from plywood scraps by my FIL and one silicone mold. Have the same problems across the board. My small bars in my silicone molds (brownie pan and some small shapes) never reach gel and never crack.

Also forgot to add, these are 100% goat milk.

 

[heartsong]

hi there! for drama queen f/o's I soap at room temp, and then force gel with an electric heating pad to jumpstart gel...I set the kitchen timer every 30 minutes and as soon as I can feel it taking off I turn off the heating pad...oven method is trickier if you have plastic molds...I use silicone, set oven on 150* or low & preheat oven...soap & then putting mold on cookie sheet...remember to shut the oven off! I still have dreams about soap I've left in the oven to cook! :shock:

I have found that the more olive oil in the recipe (40% or more,) the harder it is for me to gel, so I soap at higher temps with well behaved f/o's.

 

[newbie]

Gelling without over-heating with milk soaps just requires that constant vigilance and getting the feel for when you have to unwrap and put it someplace cooler. I do almost exactly what heartsong does (I use heating pads and sometimes the oven and in nearly the same way she does), but I tend to check much more frequently on the soap because I'm impatient and I don't have that timing down really well yet. I'm working on trying to get it to gel into the corners without overheating with sugar and milk in the recipe. It just requires a lot more time on my part to check and check. I can't make one of those soaps and leave it overnight to do its thing at this point. Maybe someday!

 

[heartsong]

Gelling without over-heating with milk soaps just requires that constant vigilance and getting the feel for when you have to unwrap and put it someplace cooler. I do almost exactly what heartsong does (I use heating pads and sometimes the oven and in nearly the same way she does), but I tend to check much more frequently on the soap because I'm impatient and I don't have that timing down really well yet. I'm working on trying to get it to gel into the corners without overheating with sugar and milk in the recipe. It just requires a lot more time on my part to check and check. I can't make one of those soaps and leave it overnight to do its thing at this point. Maybe someday!

i'm sorry, I should have mentioned that I don't use milk in my soap, except coconut milk, so i'm sure the batter can be much touchier...a kitchen timer is almost a requirement...I have a tendency to be easily distracted! :Kitten Love:

 

[newbie]

Overall if you're trying to gel, the issue is the same, esp if you soap RT. With milk or sugar added, you up the ante with overheating, but overheating can happen with non-milk soaps too, esp with some FO's. I think the techniques stand with either milk or non-milk gelling.

I know you know this, but I was just adding my own clarification.

 

[Dr.J]

Hello Rachel:

I'm pretty new to this, but from what I've read you can reduce the temperature at which the gel stage is reached by increasing the water content in your recipe (all other factors remaining the same).

More info on slides 11 - 76 of this PDF.

Also some info on slides 77 - 97 of this PDF.

In these presentations, Prof. Dunn refers to the gel phase as "neat" soap, which is just a liquid crystalline phase (form) of soap + water.

Perhaps you can amend your GM + NaOH with some additional water?

 

[Dr.J]

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but since it was mentioned, what causes cracking in soaps? How do you avoid?

What are the manifestations of overheating? In GM soaps, I believe they discolor (burning of the sugars and/or proteins?)

 

[heartsong]

I've developed a big crack running most the length of my soap and it was caused by a f/o that overheats quickly...I think it's like the next step before volcano...letting the soap cool in the fridge and not touching th crack, by the next day it had shrunk back and was barely noticeable...required only a little cosmetic trimming on a few bars...here's a pick I found that looks similar to my experience
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-akkiOu-5rK0/UEljCVU3T4I/AAAAAAAAA78/-_emk_xa9uA/s1600/100_1383.JPG

 

[100%Natural]

I gel every batch I make and so far so good. I always preheat my molds in a 170 degree oven then wrap them in a comforter folded over itself. This is where the vigilance comes in because they can gel really quickly this way. I check on them every hour and they are usually fully gelled within 3 hours. Sooner with honey soaps.

I soap around 110 - 120 degrees too.

 

[kazmi]

Hello Rachel:

I'm pretty new to this, but from what I've read you can reduce the temperature at which the gel stage is reached by increasing the water content in your recipe (all other factors remaining the same).

More info on slides 11 - 76 of this PDF.

Also some info on slides 77 - 97 of this PDF.

In these presentations, Prof. Dunn refers to the gel phase as "neat" soap, which is just a liquid crystalline phase (form) of soap + water.

Perhaps you can amend your GM + NaOH with some additional water?

Thanks for the quick reference. I just purchased his book and haven't gotten to that part of the book yet.

 

[judymoody]

I soap at about 100 degrees, preheat my molds in the oven, and then put them on a plant seedling mat and wrap them in blankets or towels. If I'm using some sort of milk or beer or fruit juice or puree, or honey, or a known problem FO, I check every half hour or so to see how they're doing. If they are going into a quick hot gel, I throw off the covers and elevate on baking racks. If it's a slower controlled gel, I wait until it reaches to the edges and then remove the insulation.

 

[cmzaha]

Hello Rachel:

I'm pretty new to this, but from what I've read you can reduce the temperature at which the gel stage is reached by increasing the water content in your recipe (all other factors remaining the same).

More info on slides 11 - 76 of this PDF.

Also some info on slides 77 - 97 of this PDF.

In these presentations, Prof. Dunn refers to the gel phase as "neat" soap, which is just a liquid crystalline phase (form) of soap + water.

Perhaps you can amend your GM + NaOH with some additional water?

I am apparently reading his conclusions differently and I could very well be incorrect. From what I read a low water formula will take higher heat to create gel versus a forumla with high water will take less heat to create gel.
I know I tested this with two identical batches of soap all temps the same only one had a 27% water discount (soapcalc) and one had 38% water. The one with full water overheated had to be rebatched.

 

[fuzz-juzz]

I soap at around 100 F and use coconut milk instead of half water and always gel. My mold is wooden and fits around 3lbs of batter. I never preheat my mold even in the winter.
I just pour soap and wrap mold in a polyester tablecloth, all around, even under the mold and wait. I fold it in a way that I can take a peek without soap losing too much heat. I peak every 5-10 minutes and when soap reaches full gel, I gently uncover it and leave it to cool. It depends on FO but soap goes into full gel after a 20 min max.
It's been summer here and very hot and just to be on a safe side I have been using more liquid in my recipes and noticed it soap takes just a little bit longer to gel. I might be wrong, but I don't think I like it, and I don't think I like how the soap with extra water turns out. It just feels and looks different, I even had one batch separating. I am going back to using 30-33% water max.