gel happenings

[Emilee]

so I posted a few days ago about being annoyed with partial gel, and discussed with Chrissy about using hot tiles or a pizza board underneath the soap mold to help gel. We also discussed mixing lye and oils when both at a temp of approx 45 celcius.

So today, I tried again (usually do rtcp, non gelled soap, so trying to gel is not easy for me for some reason), making my oatmeal and honey unscented bar.

mixed my lye with my aloe, then remembered that i'd just bought some tussah silk to try, so i pulled a few strands off and chucked them in. i have read the post on tussah silk lately, and was planning to put it into my aloe first and then pour the lye on top, but that didn't happen. anyway, the silk didn't really dissolve very well, probably becuase i hadn't taken the time to cut it up or something.

melted my oils to 45, added the lye/aloe/silk and stick blended till trace. everything looked ok, added my gm, oatmeal and honey, stirred, mixture darkened because of the honey, but looked normal, so i poured into the log mold which was sitting on a hot pizza board, covered with a wool blanky and left it.

checked it half an hour later to find a huge pool of oil sitting on top of the soap, and some had poured out of the mold on to the pizza tray and table.

questions:

what makes the oil separate like that, i've never had that happen before in 2 years making soap

i used 3pounds 14oz mixture of oils, 6oz aloe, 13.5oz gm, 8.3oz lye, 6Thoney, 1/2 cup ground oats, a few silk strands

i wasn't sure what to do, whether to leave it to see if the oil would reabsorb, or do something to it. so i did something. i poured the now quite dark looking like it had already gelled soap back into the pot, stirred in the separated oil, and poured back in the mold. that was about 3 hours ago, and i haven't checked it since.

did i do the right thing, or should i have left it?

did I overheat/overinsulate?

is it something to do with the silk that didn't dissolve in the lye?

i'm obviously going to leave the soap for a few days and see what happens, i know it can change a lot in a few days, but do you think it will be ok or not, or is it hard to know till i can do a zap test?

 

[Emilee]

seems the problem is possibly over insulation, according to millers website.

i guess with addition of honey in this one, it probably didn't need the pizza board and the blanket.

have unmolded, and soap appears fine, with a very caramel toffee scent. might be ok yet...

 

[topcat]

*fingers crossed*

Tanya

 

[Guest]

The silk doesn't always dissolve in the lye , it doesn't make any difference in your soap though.
I hope your soap turns out for you.

Kitn

 

[Bunny]

I am fairly new to this board, but I have been making milk soaps for over 12 years, and I can tell ya, BOY did your soap over-heat!

If anything, milk soap and/or soap with honey doesn't need help to gel. In fact, it usually helps to keep the heat blown-off with a fan or something while they gel. Some folks don't gel their milk soaps. I find they don't last as long if they are not gelled, so I gel all my soaps.

Since some of your soap fluids over-flowed out of the container, I would chuck it all. If your were able to contain it all, then I would suggest HPing it to save it. It would be ugly soap, but it would still be soap!. You could still try to HP it if you want to, it may turn out just fine. Just dump it into a big stainless steel pot, put a lid on it and stick it into a 200f degree oven. As it melts, stir really well about every 20 minutes. When it's all "gelled" and looks like dark vaseline, it's done.
If it has any sting (zap) to it at that point, stir-in a teaspoon of any oil - stir it really really well, wait 5 minutes then check it again... it should be fine. If it still stings a tad, stir in one more teaspoon of oil and try it again. Don't add more than a teaspoon at a time and make sure you wait at least 5 minutes between additions after stirring it in really well.

Now, for the secret of milk/honey CP soaps: be afraid of heat....very afraid, LOL. I have made plenty of messes in the past, and have learned well from them, so experience I gots.

1. Your lye solution needs to be room temp (whether it is lye water or lye milk) and your *oils as cool as you can get them (*when the oils are cool enough to just start to cloud, it's about as cool as you can get it before clumps start to form in the oils... it'll usually be about barely lukewarm).

2. Next - HAND STIR your lye solution into your oils. After you stir it well for a couple minutes, briefly stick-bllend it, then stir again. Remember, the more you stick blend it, the more heat you are gonna create in your soap. So avoid SBing the heck out of it.

3. You want light trace, not thick or heavy trace. Pour into flat molds (upright molds hold heat in too much because there's not enough surface on top of the soap for the heat to escape faster than it is created by the chemical process. Use a slab or horizontal log mold with NO LID).

4. Place the filled mold on top of a cake cooling rack, or something similar, to allow air circulation underneath the mold. Do not put a lid on it or cover it at all. Place it directly underneath a ceiling fan or other fan on medium or high, depending on how cool your home is (I am in Florida - I always turn my fan on high).

5. If you add honey to your milk soap, you are going to have to really keep a close eye on it. By the time you can SEE that gel is in progress, it's really too late to slow it down. You have to feel for it. If the soap mold feels like it is heating up quickly, get lots of moving air on it to keep the heat from building up.

6. I personally do not recommend sticking the soap into the fridge or freezer because the soap will usually still go through a sap process after you take it back out of the fridge. Your goal is not to try and prevent saponification, but just to keep the heat down to a minimum while it does saponify... did that make sense? I hope so.

7. If you get ash, wipe it off. I'd rather have to wipe-off ash than have my soap over-heat and possibly lose it! :wink:

8. *NOTE: If you are adding evap milk, milk powder slurries, honey, etc to your soap, do so immediately after you incorporate the lye solution and oils together - don't wait for trace to add any milk or honey product.
HONEY: You can reserve an ounce or so of your recipe water to mix your honey with. You can heat the honey water in the microwave to completely dissolve the honey sugars, then cool it down completely before you stir it into the soap (right after mixing the oils/lye solution together).

I hope this helps. It's all stuff I had to learn the hard way. Maybe someone out there won't have to learn it that way!

 

[AshleyR]

Bunny, those are some really awesome tips! Thanks!

I have had three batches separate on me now. Two of them overheated big time, and one of them I had added too much "stuff" to the soap before it was actually at trace.

Two times I just threw the whole thing out (I hate rebatching!) but the third time I quickly scooped the soap out of the mold and back into the pot, stick blended some more, put it in the oven at about 200 to HP, whisked every 10 mins or so, and about 40 minutes later I put it back in the mold. The soap was saved! Much easier than having to grate it all and rebatch it the next day!

 

[Emilee]

yes, thanks Bunny, thats a long time making milk soap.... i get so down on myself when my soap doesn't turn out, but then in trying to gel, I am trying a new method for me, and i'm realising i am certainly not the only one with failed batches.

the soap looks fine to me, and no zap, so i'm wondering if it will be ok. you said to chuck it if i couldn't save all the oil, i know i saved 95 percent of it. what would be the reason to chuck it if it seems fine and no zap? also, do you think in overheating, I would have lost a lot of the good properties of the more expensive oils i've used like jojoba?

i now have 2 logs ungelled, 1 partially gelled and one way overgelled, ..... I am going to get this right eventually, I will not give up!!!!

Thanks again.

Emilee

 

[vivcarm]

Thank you Bunny, they were all great tips, I think I am going to try another milk and honey bar soon, might add oatmeal too!

 

[topcat]

Thank you so much for sharing Bunny! That is what this forum is about and why it is so special

Tanya

 

[ChrissyB]

I echo all the thank you's to you Bunny!
I hope, like you said, that you can spare someone a bad batch of soap by imparting your experience!!