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cmzaha

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I totally agree with Jcandleattic, m&p is not cheating and it is not especially easy to work with. My daughter excelled at it and I cannot even pour a decent plain bar. I would also say my daughter put more work into her m&p than I do with my cp. At times she had to mix bases to accomplish what she wanted, so it is not put in a jug, heat and pour happyshopper. No one has said it is making soap unless they make their own m&p base, which I have made, but it is another form of a beautiful art. Ever seen some of the m&p out there? Some are gorgeous
 

I_like_melts

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Does anyone know anything about mixing other oils with a glycerin M&P soap base? Something like castor oil to make it more bubbly?
Yes. You're base should have a percentage of "other oils" rating. FOR EXAMPLE, this information was taken from a listing for Crafter's Choice Detergent-Free Citrus Soap.

Country of Origin: United States
Composition: TBD Naturally Derived Ingredients
Maximum Fragrance: 3% (Follow IFRA Guidelines)
Maximum Total Fluid Additives: 6%
Maximum Heating Temperature: 160º F
Recommended Container: Air Tight Wrap

According to this, you need to stay under 6% including fragrance. Castor oil can be added to 10% in many recipes, so you will need to adjust accordingly. (3% castor, 3% fragarance)
 

earlene

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Does anyone know anything about mixing other oils with a glycerin M&P soap base? Something like castor oil to make it more bubbly?
Yes. You're base should have a percentage of "other oils" rating. FOR EXAMPLE, this information was taken from a listing for Crafter's Choice Detergent-Free Citrus Soap.

Country of Origin: United States
Composition: TBD Naturally Derived Ingredients
Maximum Fragrance: 3% (Follow IFRA Guidelines)
Maximum Total Fluid Additives: 6%
Maximum Heating Temperature: 160º F
Recommended Container: Air Tight Wrap

According to this, you need to stay under 6% including fragrance. Castor oil can be added to 10% in many recipes, so you will need to adjust accordingly. (3% castor, 3% fragarance)
I don't have a ton of experience with MP other than what's available at Michael's or Hobby Lobby and only a few times. But I did notice a huge loss of bubbly-ness when I added only a little bit of oil (mixed my mica with oil for a technique challenge) in a clear glycerine base.

I did not look for the ratings that I_like_melts posted about above. It probably would have been a good idea to check on that. Anyway, I don't like the resulting soap, so plan to re-batch it at some point.
 

cmzaha

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Yes. You're base should have a percentage of "other oils" rating. FOR EXAMPLE, this information was taken from a listing for Crafter's Choice Detergent-Free Citrus Soap.

Country of Origin: United States
Composition: TBD Naturally Derived Ingredients
Maximum Fragrance: 3% (Follow IFRA Guidelines)
Maximum Total Fluid Additives: 6%
Maximum Heating Temperature: 160º F
Recommended Container: Air Tight Wrap

According to this, you need to stay under 6% including fragrance. Castor oil can be added to 10% in many recipes, so you will need to adjust accordingly. (3% castor, 3% fragarance)
It is not telling you that you need to add anything to the base, it is giving you the max load it can contain. All m&p base is made to melt and pour without any additions. Hence the name....:D Adding extra oils to m&p deters lather and castor does not make m&p lather better. Extracts in small amounts do work as does jojoba beads, oatmeal, activated charcoal, etc

Look up some of their other bases and you will not see anything listed
 

I_like_melts

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It is not telling you that you need to add anything to the base, it is giving you the max load it can contain. All m&p base is made to melt and pour without any additions. Hence the name....:D Adding extra oils to m&p deters lather and castor does not make m&p lather better. Extracts in small amounts do work as does jojoba beads, oatmeal, activated charcoal, etc

Look up some of their other bases and you will not see anything listed
I was using castor as an example ;)

I've worked with castor. It makes it slipperier. .. i think thats a good word for it.
 

Ladylather

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I don't know, I guess I just don't equate M&P as 'cheating' or not being "real" soap, which seems to be a common conception in the CP soaping community. There are people who can do things with M&P that I would never in a million years be able to do.
JMO though
Totally agree with you, jcandleattic....

Some Melt N Pour swirls I've done.... you do a lot of creative things with it :)

IMG_0583_d1450.jpg IMG_0102_1450.jpg IMG_0557_d1450.jpg IMG_0676.jpg
 
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dbloomingdale

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MP is not cheating. I do both CP and MP. I enjoy doing both. It is easier to be creative with MP. And those who are creative with CP have my up most respect. You can make some really cool and beautiful soaps with MP.
 
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I 'get' what he means though! Kind of like buying salsa in a jar vs. making it yourself... it's still salsa, although it doesn't have as many of the personal touches that you would have added, having made it yourself!! I like being able to still have salsa even when I'm too busy to make it myself (expanding on the metaphor!)! It was fun, I enjoyed it. I found it to be stress relief!!
Just tell him that it get's extra love . . .
 

HobbitonHarpy

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I believe M&P falls under a cosmetic for labelling so you have to list all ingredients.
I just read up on this recently, the FDA page I read seemed to indicate that so long as the purpose of the product was to get you clean, versus deoderizing or making a specific claim," makes your skin look younger".

*In section 701.20 of Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations [21 CFR 701.20], the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) defines the term "soap" as a product in which the non-volatile portion consists principally of an alkali salt of fatty acids, i.e., the traditional composition of soap; the product is labeled as soap; and the label statements refer only to cleansing. If cosmetic claims, e.g., moisturizing, deodorizing, skin softening etc., are made on a label, the product is a cosmetic. Synthetic detergent bars are also considered cosmetics, although they may be labeled as "soap."*

I don't know, I guess I just don't equate M&P as 'cheating' or not being "real" soap, which seems to be a common conception in the CP soaping community. There are people who can do things with M&P that I would never in a million years be able to do.
JMO though

I have read comments with attitudes about M&P that are rather disheartening.

Because of my small house with a husband, 3 kids, a dog, and my potentially lethal clutziness, working with lye is not feasable. So I do what I can. Does that mean I'm not trying as hard or being as creative?
 
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shunt2011

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Many do MP. As stated though MP is considered cosmetic as it has other ingredients not used in CP, HP soap. MP is a personal choice and ha day for those who don’t want to mess with lye. I use it for imbeds on occasion. Just label appropriately.
 

Kimscastles

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How do you mean cheating? As in you are using a base? That's not cheating. It's all soap, and M&P did at one point have to go through a CP type of process to become M&P. Just because you didn't do that part doesn't mean it's cheating.
I don’t think it’s cheating either, it’s artistic adventure soaping, it’s nice to have variety it’s the spice of life
 

math ace

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I work strictly with Melt and Pour. Some CP techniques, like Swirling, are much harder to get right in M & P, IMHO. I can't tell you how many pounds of M & P soap I had to give away before I finally mastered the swirling in M & P.

I make a Beautiful lemongrass scented soap in which I create the lemon embeds from scratch. It takes me a lot of time to create a loaf of this M & P soap. In my eyes, M & P allows you to concentrate on making art versus making soap.

Lady Lather,

Those are some beautiful peaces of art you've created with your m & p. I especially liked the first bar, the pink bar. I haven't mastered that technique yet. BEAUTIFUL!
 
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Sultana

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I believe M&P falls under a cosmetic for labelling so you have to list all ingredients.
No it doesn't as long as you make no claims. If you take your CP soap and say it does anything but clean then you are making a claim and your soap is a cosmetic.
 

earlene

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No it doesn't as long as you make no claims. If you take your CP soap and say it does anything but clean then you are making a claim and your soap is a cosmetic.

It depends on a few things if MP is only soap or not soap. Where you live and the regulations in your specific location. Even in the US, some states have more stringent regulations than the FDA. The EU has it's own rules and regulations, as to other countries as well. AND the ingredients matter (at least in the US) as well as what the seller claims. In the US, not all MP meets the FDA's definition of soap, since not all MP soap is 'composed mainly of the “alkali salts of fatty acids' (the FDA definition of soap.)

"To be regulated as “soap,” the product must be composed mainly of the “alkali salts of fatty acids,” that is, the material you get when you combine fats or oils with an alkali, such as lye."
Quoted from: https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm115449.htm

"Cleansing products, many of which are marketed as “soap,” may be cosmetics or drugs regulated by FDA, or consumer products regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, depending on how they are made or how they are intended to be used. For example, soaps and cleansers marketed as “antibacterial” are drugs."
Quoted from: https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm388824.htm
 

Sultana

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It depends on a few things if MP is only soap or not soap. Where you live and the regulations in your specific location. Even in the US, some states have more stringent regulations than the FDA. The EU has it's own rules and regulations, as to other countries as well. AND the ingredients matter (at least in the US) as well as what the seller claims. In the US, not all MP meets the FDA's definition of soap, since not all MP soap is 'composed mainly of the “alkali salts of fatty acids' (the FDA definition of soap.)

"To be regulated as “soap,” the product must be composed mainly of the “alkali salts of fatty acids,” that is, the material you get when you combine fats or oils with an alkali, such as lye."
Quoted from: https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm115449.htm

"Cleansing products, many of which are marketed as “soap,” may be cosmetics or drugs regulated by FDA, or consumer products regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, depending on how they are made or how they are intended to be used. For example, soaps and cleansers marketed as “antibacterial” are drugs."
Quoted from: https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm388824.htm
I don't know of any MP on the market that isn't made that way. Are you aware of a brand that doesn't?
 
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