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earlene

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Lin, depending on both the composition of the base you use, possibly coupled with the claims you make about your resulting soap, are what determines if your soap will be considered to be a cosmetic or a true soap, and therefore dictate your labeling requirements.

I would refer you to this blog post by Marie Gale for more detail:

http://www.mariegale.com/melt-pour-soap-soap-cosmetic/
 

Lin19687

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Oh I know that soap is soap, I make no claims other then that. ;) Just was wondering what others put for MP.
I guess I should have realized that it was considered a Cosmetic (and to be labeled as such)

I saw somewhere where someone didn't label it because it was "Soap" which would be correct if it was just soap but I didn't think it was correct.

Thanks for the Link !! :thumbs:
 

amd

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I took a quick peek at Royalty Soaps ingredient list - she uses M&P embeds in her cold process soaps - and there is no mention of the M&P ingredients. When I do mine, I list them separately as

Soap Ingredients: [insert ingredients here]
Embed Ingredients: [insert list from M&P label here, plus whatever color & fragrance I add at the end because I don't where else to put it]

@Lin19687 I don't make cosmetic claims for my soaps, so I follow the general guidelines for soap, not the cosmetic guidelines. People ask me if I make soap for dry skin and I respond "I make soap to get you clean."

ETA: I'm not sure that's right, but more upfront and honest than Royalty Soaps....
 

cmzaha

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Some of the bases my daughter used were soap and some were not, so we labeled accordingly. She used soap bases from 2 different companies

I also answer that soap is made to get you clean, when I am asked for eczema soap, etc. I do fully label and if they ask for moisturizing soap I simply tell them my soap should not dry their skin, and have some very nice lotions available
 

Lin19687

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Well learned a little bit more.
That person that labeled her M&P just soap could have correct depending on what the base was made from. TY again.
My base would be soap, not cosmetic as I didn't get the one with all the 'other stuff' in it, just soap.

I never make claims either. It is a wash off product for cleaning you.
 

jcandleattic

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Even though I don't make claims, and even when I made my own M&P (that was just soap, no syndet's or anything other than glycerin that wasn't in my main recipe was in it), for my own peace of mind, and for transparency for the customers that wanted to know, I always label my soaps. Even when I sold them nekkid, I would always hand out a label/ingredient list with each soap.
 

Lin19687

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Yes, sorry I do label my soaps. But I get them pre-made, sticky, and put on the wrapper.
This M&P that I will be doing, only because I am not stocked for this free show, will have Biz cards with ingredients on the back to go with it.
well that is if I can get the M&P to look like I like ;) 1st time playing with it.
 

earlene

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Yes, I agree that labeling should include all ingredients, but I also know that not everyone does because they don't have to list every ingredient in all cases.

Additionally, when the question is 'Is this soap?' or 'How should it be labeled?', or some of the answers suggest 'it's always (xxx)' then I feel it is prudent to look back at the actual regulations that define 'what is soap' and 'what labeling requirements' exist surrounding the product in question. It also helps to have experts like Marie Gale, who can more clearly answer those kinds of questions in fairly easy to understand laymen's terms as well.

Knowing what is really required, does not mean you can't go further and list all ingredients. Of course you can and as a consumer, I would prefer that everyone did.

ETA: most of what I say regarding regulations (Marie Gale, included) are as they pertain to the USA, because that is where I live. I have very little knowledge of EU requirements or other locations on this topic, but I know they are more stringent in some regards (maybe all.)
 

soap1daze

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I agree that regulations need to be followed depending on your location and keeping your market in mind ie European standards if selling overseas. I like know what is in my soap and I like sharing that information with my customers. Is there a section for m and p photos I have a few to share but mostly I'm a cp soapmaker!
 

soap1daze

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Thanks so much. I just learned to do a profile pic. Always learning!
 

happyshopper

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I think the idea from M&P being 'cheating' is if you just make a simple bar of soap (one colour, solid block) in both M&P and CP. The melt and pour would be cheating as all you do is heat/colour and mold, the CP takes a lot more effort.

However when you start to compare the two when fancy designs come into play, its certainly not cheating as M&P can produce some really creative soaps, more effort can be put into creating those than their CP equivalents.
 

I_like_melts

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MP is an art of its own - especially when you start customizing your recipes. There is a fine line between soap and cosmetic. If you live in an area where you cannot produce/sell cosmetics, you will have to carefully research the ingredients. Most detergent-free MP bases are considered soap, provided you don't make claims. If you are soley worried about labeling for FDA purposes, I say it's better safe than sorry. I'm in FL (I can only make "soap" at home) and still list ingredients (EVEN ON GIFTS)
 

CaraBou

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Very cool Laura. I've only melted once, but it was fun to work with - and challenging too. But man did it sweat - is there any way to control that?
 

jcandleattic

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I think the idea from M&P being 'cheating' is if you just make a simple bar of soap (one colour, solid block) in both M&P and CP. The melt and pour would be cheating as all you do is heat/colour and mold, the CP takes a lot more effort.
I sincerely do not agree with that. It's still takes effort if even not as much as other soap forms. But that's JMO and we all have our own. :)

Very cool Laura. I've only melted once, but it was fun to work with - and challenging too. But man did it sweat - is there any way to control that?
You can wrap it tightly with cling/saran wrap, use low sweat formulas, etc, but if you live in high humid areas, wrapping is the only thing IMO that helps.
 
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happyshopper

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I sincerely do not agree with that. It's still takes effort if even not as much as other soap forms. But that's JMO and we all have our own. :)
Yes it takes effort if you add extra ingredients/additives, or make a fancy design.

But just to put some in a jug in a microwave, melt, add a drop of colouring and pour into a mould. Not much effort in that as far as I am concerned :) Not thats theres anything wrong in doing that, I am currently doing just so with melt and pour but I wouldn't describe it as making soap.
 

jcandleattic

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But just to put some in a jug in a microwave, melt, add a drop of colouring and pour into a mould. Not much effort in that as far as I am concerned :) Not thats theres anything wrong in doing that, I am currently doing just so with melt and pour but I wouldn't describe it as making soap.
Okay, yes, it is much less effort, but I just don't equate less effort with "cheating" - it is still creating something from something else, so there is still creativity there, even if it is just pouring into a mold.
That's all I'm saying. I never will think of M&P - regardless of effort - as cheating. To me, and IMO that is just an unfair assessment to soapmakers that make M&P.,
 
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Does anyone know anything about mixing other oils with a glycerin M&P soap base? Something like castor oil to make it more bubbly?
 
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