First Time with Soap Calc - Check?

[thinkativeone]

I have made pure 100% olive oil (castile) soap before but this is my first time using Soap Calc. Rather than use the recipe I have used before (and run through another lye calculator) I thought I'd give SC a whirl. Mainly because this time around I want to make an 8 lb. batch, and I need to superfat more than 5%. The Essential 7 lye calculator I was using only had 5, 9, and 0% superfat options. Someone on here thought I could try 8% since I wash my hands a lot and even 5% can be a bit stripping for me.

Below is what I came up with, should I go ahead and proceed with weighing as per Soap Calc's instructions? I'd like to make the soap tonight (or at the latest, tomorrow, but would prefer pretty quick here). Thanks!


Super Fat/Discount 8 %
Water: 3.04 lbs OR 48.64 oz.
Lye: 0.997 lbs OR 15.953 oz.
Olive Oil: 8 lbs OR 128 oz.

 

[Bicycle808]

I might suggest trying less water?

 

[Hazel]

I agree with Bicycle808. I'd suggest using 33% lye concentration which would drop the water amount to approximately 2 pounds.

 

[thinkativeone]

The water as percent of oil weight is 38%. I'm not experienced enough to attempt a water discount. :-/ The lye concentration was what was automatically plugged in: 24.698 %

Is the suggestion to help everything age faster?

 

[Hazel]

The water discount is to help the olive trace faster and not take so long to get it out of the mold. Some people have said it reduces cure time but but I personally don't care for 100% olive until it's cured at least a year.

It's not going to be difficult to use 33% lye concentration. The 2 lbs of water is still slightly over twice the amount of the lye. If it make you feel more comfortable, use less of a discount - split the difference between 3 lbs and 2 lbs and use 2.5 lbs. However, you can use the full amount of water but it will just take a little longer to get it out of the mold.

 

[thinkativeone]

Where it's at it won't trace at 5-10 minutes with my stick blender pulsing occasionally and stirring? How long would it take to trace with the water discount? I'll give it a shot if you say so, I typed 33% into the lye concentration spot and it changed the water weight to 2.024 lbs or 32.39 oz. When should I unmold, then? In the past I've unmolded after 24 hours but the last time it was kind of sticky when I cut the soap and too soft in spots.

 

[robtr31]

try unmold in 48 hours should be lots of time all depends on your mold

rob

 

[thinkativeone]

I mean unmold with the water discount applied this time. I use wooden loaf molds (4 lbs each) lined with freezer paper.

 

[kazmi]

I agree with Hazel. 38% is way too high. My first cp I used 35% (not a castile but high OO) and I had to keep it in the mold for 2 days. Every batch since then I'm using 33%.

 

[new12soap]

If you do not feel comfortable or experienced enough to use a water discount I would say stick with smaller batches. Do a little more research and reading on what water discounts mean and what they do, then try it with say a 2lb batch. That is sufficient to be able to see and get a "feel" for the difference. Personally I would have rather made 4 two-pound batches than attempt an 8lb batch as a relative beginner.

You said that a 5% lye discount is too drying for you, but that this is the first time you have tried using soap calc. Have you run your previous recipes thru soapcalc, just to see if the lye amount is the same on both calculators? Also, how long are you letting the soap cure before you use it? Some people do prefer an 8% superfat, but there are a few other considerations too. I have dry/sensitive skin and I am usually fine with a 5% SF with a little longer cure time.

 

[VanessaP]

I use a 40% lye concentration for my castile but I don't add anything to it other than maybe some sodium lactate so I can unmold after 24 hours. Even when it gels, if I don't use SL and a nice big water discount, it takes me a couple of days to unmold it. Last time I made it, 40% lye concentration, 1.5% SL and CPOP - unmolded in 24 hours and it was almost too hard to cut another 24 hours later.

 

[Hazel]

new12soap brought up good points about starting with a smaller batch if you're unsure about attempting 100% olive and on a longer cure time. I didn't even think to ask how long you've been curing your soap.

VanessaP also made a good suggestion about using sodium lactate. (Another thing I didn't think to mention. ). I use a higher percentage of unsaturated oils in most of my recipes so I use sodium lactate to help with initial hardness so I can unmold them in 24-48 hours.

I personally don't think you'd have a problem with using a slight water discount and using twice the weight of water as compared to the weight of lye. I certainly wouldn't recommend a higher discount until you've made a few more batches. You said you've made 100% OO. How long ago was this batch? Did you use full water? Also, do you remember how long it took to trace?

Some info on water discounting which you might find helpful.

http://www.soapcalc.net/info/DWCPcaution.asp
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f11/water-discount-25917/
How to Discount Water

 

[thinkativeone]

Yes, I've read about water discounts before. When I looked at them on this forum I saw people talking about levels of experience regarding WDing which is why I figured I wasn't experienced enough for it. I haven't attempted them but this is not my first, or second, batch of soap. I've made pure 100% olive oil castile soap before, and I've made 8 lbs at one time before. I like to make a lot at once so that I don't have to make more later, because it takes SO long to cure. Also, I have a 12-qt. stainless steel pot for just that purpose, and I don't have anything smaller. When I just do 4 lbs. in it that's awfully low in the pot anyway. I used the Essential 7 lye calculator in the past, not soap calc. I ran this recipe through it: http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2009/10/pure-olive-oil-soap.html But I wanted to make enough to fit my two 4-lb. loaf molds and just learn to use Soap Calc instead, since it's more comprehensive.

I didn't think it was a big deal because soap calc automatically put in 38%. Edited to scratch a question here because I read this from the about link, "Recipes with higher percentages of soft oils will accept stronger lye solutions; recipes with high percentages (>50%) of hard oils or fats (such as palm, coconut and tallow) will need weaker lye solutions - i.e., a higher amount of water." Hadn't seen that on here before, thanks! Makes more sense now.

I let all my soap, after unmolding and cutting, dry for a MINIMUM of 4 1/2 weeks before using. But I already realize that it takes 6 months or more to reach the preference for those on here that have made castile. I wash my hands probably 20+ times a day because I drink a LOT of water, container garden, cleaning, cooking, etc. So they get dried out. Tracing takes me 5-10 minutes pulsing my immersion blender and stirring, alternately. My last batch was done about 4-5 months ago. For me I notice a definite change in my soap and I use it more around then since it's less (though not perfect) slimy.

I don't have a problem going ahead and doing it as long as it's not likely to mess up my batch. I just would like to know how long it will take to trace at 33%, and when to unmold. I'm basically just making a "new" castile recipe (not really). DH made me some new wooden loaf molds that are PERFECT a few weeks ago and we got the lining all smooth last night so I'm eager to get this done tonight.

 

[Hazel]

It doesn't require a lot of experience to use 33% lye concentration. You're still using 2:1 water/lye ratio which is plenty of water to dissolve lye and give you time to work with the batch. I'd be more concerned about using 40%-50% lye concentration which I know experienced soapers have mentioned doing in past discussions. Actually, I would use a higher lye concentration than 33% for 100% OO now. When I first started to make CP, I wouldn't have done it just because I was still learning the process.

I don't have any idea how long it would take 8 lbs of OO to trace. I've never made larger than a 2 lb batch of it because I don't really care for the lather. I don't normally make larger than 2 lbs for any high percentage OO batches because I don't like waiting 9+ months to use them. The 100% OO batch I didn't really care for the lather until it had cured for 18 months. But this is just personal preference and I know there are many people who love OO and don't cure as long.

Please don't take this the wrong way because I don't want to upset you. But I'd suggest using a good lotion or cream to moisturize your hands since you wash your hands frequently. Soap doesn't moisturize. You can make it very gentle to make it less stripping and up the superfat (lye discount) to allow for a little of the free oil to hopefully remain on your skin. But by its very nature, soap is intended to remove oil and dirt from the skin. You need a leave on product to help moisturize and protect your skin.

 

[thinkativeone]

No offense taken whatsoever. I make my own body butters, lotion bars, or just use straight oil (maybe with a drop of EO per ounce) to moisturize my skin. I avoid the chemicals in the pre-made stuff and when it comes to safer ingredients, it's cheaper for me to make my own. I understand soap doesn't moisturize, I just wanted to make the soap I use the most less stripping, exactly. Thought I'd try 8% and see if it makes a difference. If not, I could play with the SF some more. When you make 100% OO, do you trace it very thick, or to a thin trace? I usually do thick but I'm open to playing around. How do you insulate yours as it firms up in the molds? Just curious to see if I can improve my current ways of doing things.

I personally prefer to make big batches because once the batch I have runs out, my next batch should be good to go. I'll probably make another this large in 2-5 months or so. Thank you so much for all your help.

 

[Hazel]

Okay, I didn't know your views about soap. Some people seem to think soap does moisturize and I just like to clarify it. I didn't know your perception. No offense intended. I'm sorry but I don't have knowledge of your opinions, etc. You're one of the quiet members so it's taking me longer to get to "know" you.

That's great that you make you're own butters, etc. I generally use whipped shea if I need a touch of emolliency but I also use commercial lotions (Avon) especially for my face. I had a class on cosmetic ingredients and did further research so I'm not a person who gets overly upset when I read ingredient labels or views commercial products as necessarily bad. There are some commercial cleansers which are much better for my skin than the facial soap I make. It didn't use to be that way but time ain't on my side anymore. To quote the Rolling Stones, "What a drag it is getting old". Of course, it does beat the alternative.

I've only done 100% OO once and that batch I didn't gel because I used 100% buttermilk for the liquid. I prefer bastile 70%-75% OO and I do blend until I get a mid to thick trace. I combine the oils and lye/water at a higher temp 120+ F because I prefer to gel them. Normally, I just wrap the mold in a towel to help with gelling. More rarely, I might put the batch into the oven to help force gel if I'm making a batch in the winter and the house is especially cold. Older house - harder to heat and drafty, too.

Sodium lactate really does help with initially hardening high percentage olive batches for easier removal from a mold. If you don't have sodium lactate, you could try adding a little salt.

I can understand wanting to make large batches so you have enough soap to last while the next batch is curing. I just like to make smaller batches more often because I like to use different scents.

 

[thinkativeone]

Like I said, you didn't offend me. It's all good. I also didn't know I was "quiet". I thought since I'd made a few posts that I was posting too much! Not trying to be all mysterious or anything. I'm a fairly cut-and-dry person. I use all organic ingredients and I want to keep things as simple and cheap as I possibly can (while staying within the realm of certified organic - no substitutions, I check around for the best prices on it though). If it's a matter of waiting for it to harden over time, I would rather wait than buy another ingredient like Sodium Lactate since it just seems to be an issue of patience. My cheapness outweighs my impatience. Anything you want to know about me just ask.

I did a ton of research on commercial ingredients and chemicals. One help (though not the end-all be-all) was EWG's Cosmetic Safety Database. Some of the information is lacking on specific chemicals but most of the time it is very helpful. Making my own skincare products has resulted in happier skin for me personally, anything I used to buy either dried me out too much (which on my face would cause sebum production to go into overdrive) or provoke a rash, or just smell very awful. I'm very sensitive to synthetic fragrances. I stick to organic EOs for fragrance and therapeutic benefits now.

I'd be sorely tempted to make a 16 lb. batch but the problem would be making space for all that to dry, and I would need two more 4 lb. loaf molds. I technically have one more but the ends need fixed on that one.

We got tied up at an engagement today so unfortunately soap is just not going to happen this weekend, ugh. Discouraging. Hopefully this week if not the next weekend. I need better thermometers but I have to stick with what I have for now.

 

[Hazel]

Nope! You haven't posted often, IMO.

As for EWG's site - I used to believe what they had in their database until I did further research. Now I never check out the site and I prefer to trust other sites. But this is just my opinion.

You might find these discussions interesting.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f11/do-you-know-what-youre-putting-your-skin-33928/
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f11/how-natural-lye-33124/
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/solid-bubble-bars-22709/

 

[thinkativeone]

Thanks. I'm not concerned about lye after it no longer remains once the process of saponification is complete and the bars have aged.

Anyway, that's why I mentioned EWG is not the end-all-be-all, there are other sources out there and I prefer to research every ingredient individually for awhile. I have never given them money and never will. Found out about them a few years ago, but they've become a lot less relevant since. The first link you posted about non-profit exec pay makes me think of a piece done on Goodwill recently, that was even worse. I never paid much attention to what EWG did, just looked up chemicals there or plugged them in before they had many products listed. I like B&B's Chemical of the Day better, as she has access to labs and chemists and puts in more research than anyone I know. But there are other websites I can't think of the name of right now too.

I figured 58 posts since I joined last month was a lot, but that's me. I usually don't post this much on other forums. Depends on what we have going on at the time.

 

[Lotus]

I think you post a fair amount, Thinkative. But, on the other hand, I do believe we joined at about the same time, and look at the mess I've made of my post number.

Of course, I just can't shut up, but I do believe she's thinking "comparatively." : )