First time using Palm Oil - chalkiness

[SoapDaddy70]

Hello everyone. I used Palm Oil for the first time in the attached recipe. I CPOP'd but not sure if it gelled or not. I cut shortly after 24hrs in the mold and it was kind of chalky at the edges. I would not say it was soft but just something about the feel of it was weird and different from my other batches that have not contained palm oil. Are there noticeable differences between soap containing palm oil versus no palm oil. After a couple of days it still feels and looks more like clay rather than soap. Hard to explain.

 

[DeeAnna]

This soap may not have fully gelled if it feels more clay like. At least that's been my conclusion when this happens to my soap. Now that my house is cooler, I'm more likely to see this problem. You can do a "rescue" CPOP -- that may help.

I've not made a lot of batches of soap with palm, but the ones I have made that did get warm enough to gel had a firm, translucent quality that I also associate with lard soap. In fact, I'd say the bars with palm were even harder than bars made from a high-lard recipe.

I'd give palm another try or two before you draw any lasting conclusions.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

This soap may not have fully gelled if it feels more clay like. At least that's been my conclusion when this happens to my soap. Now that my house is cooler, I'm more likely to see this problem. You can do a "rescue" CPOP -- that may help.

I've not made a lot of batches of soap with palm, but the ones I have made that did get warm enough to gel had a firm, translucent quality that I also associate with lard soap. In fact, I'd say the bars with palm were even harder than bars made from a high-lard recipe.

I'd give palm another try or two before you draw any lasting conclusions.

Yea. I am inclined to think it did not gel. Also might up my water content to get to gel at a lower temperature. This is also the first time using a lye concentration at 38%. Need to get an oven thermometer because pretty sure my WARM setting on my oven is not getting up to 170 F. Thanks as always DeeAnna.

 

[cmzaha]

My guess from the looks of your soap it did not gel. I use a min of 40% palm oil in all my vegan soaps with a 32-30% lye concentration depending on how many swirls I want. I would do as DeeAnna mentioned, but I would also recommend not using such a high lye concentration, it just is not necessary with high palm. DeeAnna is correct a high palm soap is hard with lard/tallow like texture. I will note I do not CPOP, but I do have to force gel using heat pads and blankets, with your high lye concentration gel is much harder to accomplish. I will also note I am not from the higher lye concentration more work time camp, especially with high palm. I always found high stearic/palmitic soaps would get chalky if not gelled.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

My guess from the looks of your soap it did not gel. I use a min of 40% palm oil in all my vegan soaps with a 32-30% lye concentration depending on how many swirls I want. I would do as DeeAnna mentioned, but I would also recommend not using such a high lye concentration, it just is not necessary with high palm. DeeAnna is correct a high palm soap is hard with lard/tallow like texture. I will note I do not CPOP, but I do have to force gel using heat pads and blankets, with your high lye concentration gel is much harder to accomplish. I will also note I am not from the higher lye concentration more work time camp, especially with high palm. I always found high stearic/palmitic soaps would get chalky if not gelled.

Awesome. Thanks for your response. Makes me happy that I am learning from all this trial and error. If you see my response above to DeeAnna I realize it is most likely due to my higher lye concentration and then your response confirmed this. Next batch with this recipe I will lower my lye concentration and go back to just insulating. I actually have not been having good results when I moved to CPOP. I don't think my oven is getting hot enough. My first few batches when I insulated I was able to witness gel phase. When I moved to CPOP I have yet to see one of my soaps gel.

 

[cmzaha]

The way I gel is, I put my molds in a low crate that holds two of my 18" molds, I cover with a beach towel to catch condensation cover with the lid, and wrap a lap heat blanket around the top. I also have a heating pad on the bottom. I repeat the layers when pouring multiple batches. It is a little work because you need to keep an eye on them for overheating, but I know most of my fo's and how they act. When I add a new layer I rotate my crates. I do mine this way because I pour to the tippy top or over the top of my molds. For one, my molds do not fit well in my oven and 2 the oven is hard on my HDPE molds.

 

[DeeAnna]

Well, you don't have to CPOP at 170 F, although I remember that was the temp most people used for CPOP when I first started making soap. There's a good risk of overheating the soap if you go that warm, however.

Most people CPOP closer to 140F nowadays and I'd say that's pretty successful. I seldom CPOP anymore, but even with a high lye concentration, I'd still stick to the 140F limit if I did CPOP.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

A high lye concentration is great for avoiding ash, but it can be tricky to get the soap to gel. For a palm recipe I make at 35% lye concentration with 25% palm and 20% CO, plus sugar in the recipe, I can force gel if I set my mold on a heating pad set to high, cover it with cardboard, then a towel, then a fleece blanket and then keep it warm until I can see that it gelled completely. It might take a few hours for 1000 g of oils in a thin walled, silicone lined wood loaf mold. A few weeks ago I moved a couple of small batches (500 g oils, 35% lye conc.,palm recipe, stand alone silicone loaf molds) off the heating pad and into a slightly warm oven. After about 2 hours on the heating pad, the batches were clearly gelling in the middle, so I thought they would be fine. Despite wrapping the molds in a towel to help keep the heat in, I ended up with partial gel in both batches.

Did you work at a fairly thin emulsion? I get chalky soap if the emulsion is thin and the soap doesn’t gel. Although I can force cut bars of chalky soap made at high lye concentration to gel in the oven (at 200F or higher!) and actually watch the chalkiness diminish or disappear, the final texture remains a bit grainy. You might want to pop a bar or two into the oven as an experiment. To avoid that problem I bring the emulsion to a slightly thicker consistency and make sure it gels. It took trial and error to recognize the right consistency.

Your soap design is really nice and I’m sure you were looking forward to the cut. I’m sorry it didn’t work out as planned.