false trace pine tar recipe

[manny]

Yesterday I made two batches of PT soap, A recipe I have made many times before.

80% Lard
20%Pine Tar
Full Water (aloe juice)
5% SF

I believe I reached a false trace. With both batches, poured into individual molds, the lye water started separating on the last few soaps I poured. Most of the bars look normal and do not zap. Should I rebatch all of the bars? I like a several month cure. Could I pour off the small amount of lye water from the separated bars and see if they cure out ok? I have never attempted a rebatch, any advice is appreciated.

 

[newbie]

If the normal bars are all testing fine and only a few bars had separation, I would be inclined to rebatch just the separated ones. If you hate rebatching, you could treat those few bars as an experiment by pouring off the lye water and holding them aside to be tested later for zap and quality. You can write them off as a good learning experience if they fail the quality test.

One way to prevent any future problems is to add your lye water to just the lard and stick blend for a bit until it's at least emulsified or even at a very light trace. Then add your pine tar and stir only by hand to incorporate. You stand a better chance of having a decent pour that way as well.

 

[DeeAnna]

I do what Newbie does -- bring all the other ingredients to light trace, then hand stir the PT into the batter. So far I have not seen any separation or other problems (except for the usual fast thickening after the PT goes in).

 

[manny]

Thank you, Newbie and DeeAnna, I will definitely try that method next time. The pine tar really does accelerate trace, but is so worth the hassle. My skin really loves the lard and pt combo.

 

[dixiedragon]

What temp were you soaping at? Also, I add a bit of extra water - I bump soapcalc up from 38% to 40%.

 

[KatsKreations]

Thanks for the great info. I have a friend that buys her pine tar soap and I was hoping to make her some as a surprise

 

[manny]

Dixiedragon, I did not measure the temps, but both the oils and lye water were only slightly warm to the touch. I wanted to keep it as close too room temp as possible, without the lard resolidifying

 

[DeeAnna]

Sounds about the temps I use -- room temperature to just warmish. My base soap recipe has lard in it. Sometimes I just microwave the lard until it is just warm enough to mostly melt. Other times I add warm lye solution (not smokin' hot) to the lard and stir until melted. I then stir in the room temp liquid oils. I don't warm the PT.

 

[dixiedragon]

Possibly it was too cool and that's why you got a false trace? I soap my pine tar soaps at 100 degrees. Another thing that is very helpful is my pine tar soaps are high in olive oil, which also helps to slow things down.

 

[dosco]

Out of curiosity, where does one purchase pine tar?

-Dave

 

[manny]

I purchased my pine tar at the Tractor Supply, it's in the horse care section. Any feed and seed store should have it.

 

[DeeAnna]

This is what I like best, but it's not cheap: http://www.noxudolusa.com/product/kiln-burn-pine-tar-liter/

 

[newbie]

I haven't gone the high end route. I got Bickmore through Amazon.

 

[DeeAnna]

I got the spendy stuff just cuz I wanted to try it out and see what I thought. For me, the Auson kiln burn smells far nicer than Bickmore PT, especially after the soap is cured out. I don't care to use PT soap myself, but I'm usually in the shower with dear hubby while he lathers up with it. If I have to put up with the smell of PT pretty much everyday, I will unashamedly admit I want it to smell as nice as possible.

 

[newbie]

I know it's hard to describe smells but what do you find the difference to be between the Bickmore and the Auson? SMokier but not so burnt? Is there a difference in the color of the bar or a significant difference in the quality of the lather?

 

[DeeAnna]

Auson is more like smoke from a campfire -- definitely and undeniably smoky, but there is an overlay of "pine trees on a hot summer day" smell to the aroma, especially after a good cure. Bickmore is "burnt rubber" smoky at first and cures down to more of a plain smoky odor.

Color in both cases is the same in my experience. Mine so far has always been a very dark blackish brown at 10% PT, but I know PT soap can be a lighter brown depending on the soap recipe, the amount of PT used, and natural variations in the PT from can to can.

If you start with a base soap recipe that already lathers nicely, adding PT will increase the lather. I have no idea whether PT can make a low suds soap lather better -- not something I've tried.

 

[goji_fries]

I do what Newbie does -- bring all the other ingredients to light trace, then hand stir the PT into the batter. So far I have not seen any separation or other problems (except for the usual fast thickening after the PT goes in).

Excellent advice as always. Thank you. :wave:

Thank you, Newbie and DeeAnna, I will definitely try that method next time. The pine tar really does accelerate trace, but is so worth the hassle. My skin really loves the lard and pt combo.

" ^^^ "

Sounds about the temps I use -- room temperature to just warmish. My base soap recipe has lard in it. Sometimes I just microwave the lard until it is just warm enough to mostly melt. Other times I add warm lye solution (not smokin' hot) to the lard and stir until melted. I then stir in the room temp liquid oils. I don't warm the PT.

Auson is more like smoke from a campfire -- definitely and undeniably smoky, but there is an overlay of "pine trees on a hot summer day" smell to the aroma, especially after a good cure. Bickmore is "burnt rubber" smoky at first and cures down to more of a plain smoky odor.

Color in both cases is the same in my experience. Mine so far has always been a very dark blackish brown at 10% PT, but I know PT soap can be a lighter brown depending on the soap recipe, the amount of PT used, and natural variations in the PT from can to can.

If you start with a base soap recipe that already lathers nicely, adding PT will increase the lather. I have no idea whether PT can make a low suds soap lather better -- not something I've tried.

Hope to find some of this in a week or so. Have been dying to make some of this for the longest. Quick questions though.

Q: How much is the average lil bucket going for where you guys live?

Q2: Do you guys think that any addition of EOs to PT soap would mess it up somehow, or is it so strong that accentuating EOs would be overkill?

 

[DeeAnna]

Auson -- figure $40-45 per liter with shipping. Nope, ain't cheap.
Bickmore -- figure $12-18 per quart. I pick mine up locally so no shipping.

I have tried EOs, and, yes, I could tell the difference, because I knew what to look for. But overall I didn't feel the added fragrance was all that obvious to innocent bystanders. Your mileage may vary!

 

[goji_fries]

I got the spendy stuff just cuz I wanted to try it out and see what I thought. For me, the Auson kiln burn smells far nicer than Bickmore PT, especially after the soap is cured out. I don't care to use PT soap myself, but I'm usually in the shower with dear hubby while he lathers up with it. If I have to put up with the smell of PT pretty much everyday, I will unashamedly admit I want it to smell as nice as possible.

Auson -- figure $40-45 per liter with shipping. Nope, ain't cheap.
Bickmore -- figure $12-18 per quart. I pick mine up locally so no shipping.

I have tried EOs, and, yes, I could tell the difference, because I knew what to look for. But overall I didn't feel the added fragrance was all that obvious to innocent bystanders. Your mileage may vary!

I want to bathe in PT. The soap scent I am envisioning now is a burning forest or one that was just put out combined with slight fresh pine needles and bark. Which would require a little EO to fully develop the scent.