Essential oil vs. fragance oil

[Maricelih]

Hi! I have been making soap for almost a year now. So far all my batches have work out good. However I made a batch yesterday and when I realized I didn't have the whole amount of essential oil needed for the recipe I used fragrance oil instead. The soap never came to trace. Is fragrance oil to blame? :eh:

Thanks,
Mariceli

 

[lsg]

You don't say what type of fragrance oil you used, I am assuming it was one made for soap. I have made a mistake in measurements with oils, perhaps that is what happened to you. You might try putting the soap in an old crockpot on in a double boiler and cooking it. Sometimes that will work with problem soap.

 

[Sapwn]

What do you mean by saying that the soap never came to trace?

Fragrance oil must be added at trace if I am not wrong. If you didn’t have trace you shouldn’t have added the fragrance oil.



The problem that I had with some fragrance oils was the contrary. It accelerated trace, not that it inhibited its formation.

 

[lsg]

Fragrance can be added to the oils before adding the lye solution. There are no set rules. Some people add fragrance to the oils instead of adding at trace to prevent acceleration.

 

[Sapwn]

Fragrance can be added to the oils before adding the lye solution. There are no set rules. Some people add fragrance to the oils instead of adding at trace to prevent acceleration.

Thank you Isg! I didn't know they can be added before the lye solution.

 

[Moody Glenn]

Fragrance can be added to the oils before adding the lye solution. There are no set rules. Some people add fragrance to the oils instead of adding at trace to prevent acceleration.

I do this method as I have forgotten at times to add the eo and/or fo. I have never noticed any major changes in scent quality. As for trace, once you add the correctly measured lye solution saponification will eventually happen. Do you hand stir with a spoon or use a stick blender? The blender speeds up trace time dramatically. Also what is the temperature of your melted oils and the lye solution? If everything is too cool the reaction time is also slowed way down. The opposite happens when everything is way too warm or hot. As for your main question - are you positive you measured everything properly? I ask this for I have had strange results happen and later discover I added too much of an oil or water.

PS: I forgot to say "Welcome to the forum!"

 

[Maricelih]

I do this method as I have forgotten at times to add the eo and/or fo. I have never noticed any major changes in scent quality. As for trace, once you add the correctly measured lye solution saponification will eventually happen. Do you hand stir with a spoon or use a stick blender? The blender speeds up trace time dramatically. Also what is the temperature of your melted oils and the lye solution? If everything is too cool the reaction time is also slowed way down. The opposite happens when everything is way too warm or hot. As for your main question - are you positive you measured everything properly? I ask this for I have had strange results happen and later discover I added too much of an oil or water.

PS: I forgot to say "Welcome to the forum!"

Thank you. I will try again and make sure I measure well the oils. I do use a stick blender and the temperature of both oils and lye were around 100 degrees both.

 

[Maricelih]

You don't say what type of fragrance oil you used, I am assuming it was one made for soap. I have made a mistake in measurements with oils, perhaps that is what happened to you. You might try putting the soap in an old crockpot on in a double boiler and cooking it. Sometimes that will work with problem soap.

Thank You.

 

[Maricelih]

What do you mean by saying that the soap never came to trace?

Fragrance oil must be added at trace if I am not wrong. If you didn’t have trace you shouldn’t have added the fragrance oil.



The problem that I had with some fragrance oils was the contrary. It accelerated trace, not that it inhibited its formation.

That is my understanding too, so when I added the oils I expected it to come to trace fast. I will try again.

 

[pamielynn]

Any scent (FO or EO) can speed up or slow down your trace but should not be required to bring your batter to trace. Adding the scent BEFORE the lye can give you more control with those tricky, mis-behavin' ones

 

[Maricelih]

Any scent (FO or EO) can speed up or slow down your trace but should not be required to bring your batter to trace. Adding the scent BEFORE the lye can give you more control with those tricky, mis-behavin' ones

Thank You!

 

[Sapwn]

Fragrance can be added to the oils before adding the lye solution. There are no set rules. Some people add fragrance to the oils instead of adding at trace to prevent acceleration.

Is this valid for HP as well?

Does cooking alter the FO or the EO?

 

[lhaase0217]

I have had the last few batches rice and come to an accelerated trace. I was able to salvage them by glooping it into the mold but I wanted to do some swirling.

I tried researching why this was happening. All forums and boards seemed to think that Florals were the culprit, others using any FO in CP soap, and others yet felt the change between the heat of the oil/lye solution at trace mixed with the room temp FO increased trace. So I figured no one really knows why this happens and that is why you test small batches first.

I decided to try one last time. Using the last of my lye (gads this hobby is expensive), I went back to a basic recipe, mentioned above, from soaping101, the Bastille recipe. I didn't bring the batter to trace since it seems that FO might be the problem. I separated some into 2 contrasting colorants I had made earlier and kept the rest as a base color. Then I added the FO. A little in each of the colors and the rest in the main color. I blended it together well. Still no trace. I blended more vigorously by hand, still no trace. I felt hopeful finally. I hit it with the SB, just a short burst or 2, still no trace but getting thicker.

I did finally pour this after all 3 colors were at a VERY light trace and an in the mold swirl. It was still a bit too loose to texture the top so I left it for a few minutes, went back and textured. No glitter for me.

I am going to keep my fingers crossed and try not to peek under it's blanket for the next 12 hours at least. It's hard.

 

[kazmi]

I've read on the scent review board that a few of the FO will slow down trace. Not many but some. I read a review on the scent board that a FO I purchased is prone to acceleration so I added it to my oils. Worked great since it gave me time to do some swirls.

Llhaase, I think her bastille recipe on soaping101 will take a little longer to trace. It sounds like this last batch should work perfect for you. Post some pics when you get it out of the mold and cut.

 

[lhaase0217]

I read on a post in a different thread that there is an ingredient in many FO called Eugenol which was thought to cause seizure or accelerating trace but even with knowing that, finding out if this FO has this ingredient might be tough.

 

[lhaase0217]

I've read on the scent review board that a few of the FO will slow down trace. Not many but some. I read a review on the scent board that a FO I purchased is prone to acceleration so I added it to my oils. Worked great since it gave me time to do some swirls.

Llhaase, I think her bastille recipe on soaping101 will take a little longer to trace. It sounds like this last batch should work perfect for you. Post some pics when you get it out of the mold and cut.

This batch turned out fine! The swirls are nice even though I was limited on colors (Coco and Paprika and the base vanilla pudding color) The FO is not as strong as I would have liked, I think that is because I discounted the % as mentioned below. I did a in the mold spoon turn (3 times, bringing up to next layer) and a skewer swirl. I think I went a bit overboard on combining swirl techniques and muddied the contrast a bit too much. Overall though it was not a bad soap.

You were right on that. Using a recipe that has a higher concentrations of OO slowed the trace enough that the FO did not gloop it up. I did take some additional measures to try and fix this such as:

• Reduced the % of FO in the batch
• Ice bathed the oils & lye/water to just above room temp
• Did not bring to trace at all until the very end after adding FO (even then it was still soupy when poured).

The next one I try I think I will add my colorants before trace, bring to trace then add the FO and see how it acts. Even after 24 hours it is still a bit soft but then again this recipe only had a hardness value of 31 unlike a recipe higher in coconut. I prefer those since I get a whiter bar and I don't want to have to use TD to get my nice whites. I am trying for a natural look to my artisan soaps. (On that note, I got a new haul from Soap Making Resource this past week. I am going to get to work with Indigo, Woad and some other natural colorants! I am so excited and will post a thread on that.)

Another post suggested paying attention to the sat:unsat ratio of a recipe. Needs to be low in sat, high in unsat to trace slower.

My stupid network won't send the pics from my phone right now. I will post them later once I get them in my email.

 

[judymoody]

Any scent (FO or EO) can speed up or slow down your trace but should not be required to bring your batter to trace. Adding the scent BEFORE the lye can give you more control with those tricky, mis-behavin' ones

Respectfully, I will disagree here.

If you have an accelerating FO or EO, I find it best to hand stir it in at light trace. If it's mixed into your oils from the beginning, your batter can seize and/or the lye mixture might not fully incorporate into the oils. If you must add a known accelerator before the lye, then I recommend that you stir or whisk only - leave the stick blender to the side.

If you are using a well-behaved FO, however, adding it up front lessens the likelihood of forgetting to add it altogether.

Eugenol is a scent component found in florals and spice EOs like clove and cinnamon leaf. It is possible to research the eugenol content of EOs, but not FOs as their formulations are typically proprietary.

Hope this helps!

 

[Jakeedin]

OMG!! Should have read this topic earlier. Fort the first, today, I decided to use a Fragrance oil, Peach & papaya and it was also my first time to use colours. I was concerened more about the colours as to how to do swirls.
I tried the method of adding fragrance oil with the base before lye, as I have seen it done before. Everything was fine as I expected it to be. Temperature 85F on both. Brought it to trace using STICK BLENDER. Now read this carefully, I went to fetch my Superfats which was 15 seconds at the most. Returned and found the thing SEIZED on me. Let's say, I now recognise seizing (in the past, i always wondered what seizing looked like).
I'm usually laxy dazy in soap-making. Today, I have never worked that fast before with the intense UK heatwave of 30 celsius. It was not fun and I did not enjoy. I went on a huff.
Still I carried on as best I could swapping to hand mixing getting rid of the RICE like as much as possible, coloured it. As fir swirls. forget it. I just dumped in the mould covered it and insulated it. OMG!!! It was Goats Milk!!! I should n't be insulating. Byeeeee!!!

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

..... didn't have the whole amount of essential oil needed for the recipe I used fragrance oil instead. The soap never came to trace. Is fragrance oil to blame? :eh:

Thanks,
Mariceli

Mariceli - you said that you didn't have the whole amount of EO needed so subbed FO. Since neither EO or FO are used in the calculation for the lye amount, are you sure that the recipe wasn't your problem, not the EO/FO combo? Have you made the same recipe before that turned out ok? I asked because my first few batches were made with all liquid oils and took FOREVER to trace.

 

[Theda]

My limited experience of 2 batches using FO's has actually reversed trace. One batch more than the other. I actually got to very thick trace quicker than I thought I would and decided to dump in the FO (granny smith apple) anyway. My batch thinned right back to a thin trace and is on day 2 in the mold, but is getting close to time to unmold.