BB Cedar & Saffron- Usage Rate Change

[Cellador]

FYI- I was about to reorder this scent from BB, but I noticed that a reviewer recently requested the IFRA usage on this FO, and the usage rate is .91% for soap (less than 1% for all categories, actually). BB confirmed their FO calc did not have the appropriate usage rates and they were correcting it...so, just an FYI to anyone who uses this scent.

 

[dibbles]

It's strong, but I wonder what it will be like at that low of a rate. I like that one - but will have to do a test before I decide if I'll order it again. Bummer.

 

[Cellador]

Yup, I don't think you'll get much scent in soap. BB's previous recommendation was around 3.5%, I think, so that's a big difference.
I love this scent, so I might have to keep it around for other body products.

 

[cmzaha]

It could be the clove in the fragrance, if their CS contains clove. I have used it at 6% with no one ever complain of issues.

 

[Lin19687]

Some scents that are at 1% usually have to wait for like 3-5 months before the scent is detectable. At least for me that I have seen on the 1 I had. But it was not this scent.
I won't buy a scent that has that low a %

 

[IrishLass]

You know....at the risk of getting some flack for this, the more and more I read my Essential Oil Safety tome by Robert Tisserand and Dr. Robert Young, the less and less absolute trust I have for IFRA recommendations. In the book by Tisserand and Young, they give a fair, well-rounded critical review of IFRA (which is funded by corporations with vested interests, btw) and write of there being lots of concerns in the scientific community that the science IFRA is using to make their assessments has lots of gaps, that their guidelines are too complex, arbitrary, and are pushed through without having vetting independent scientific sources, and go way overboard in certain instances in spite of known, reliable, published scientific data to the contrary. And it seems they have a history of publishing guidelines while withholding some of the data they are based on. Speaking only for myself, I've always used Cedar & Saffron at 5% in my soap without any issues and will continue to do so.


IrishLass

 

[earlene]

You know....at the risk of getting some flack for this, the more and more I read my Essential Oil Safety tome by Robert Tisserand and Dr. Robert Young, the less and less absolute trust I have for IFRA recommendations. In the book by Tisserand and Young, they give a fair, well-rounded critical review of IFRA (which is funded by corporations with vested interests, btw) and write of there being lots of concerns in the scientific community that the science IFRA is using to make their assessments has lots of gaps, that their guidelines are too complex, arbitrary, and are pushed through without having vetting independent scientific sources, and go way overboard in certain instances in spite of known, reliable, published scientific data to the contrary. And it seems they have a history of publishing guidelines while withholding some of the data they are based on. Speaking only for myself, I've always used Cedar & Saffron at 5% in my soap without any issues and will continue to do so.


IrishLass

Thank you for your response, IrishLass. It makes me that much more interested in that book. At $65 or $85 (whatever it was last I looked - a couple days ago) I just haven't pushed myself to buy it yet, but it is definitely on my WANT list! Even more so, now that I have read your perspective.

 

[lucycat]

I agree with you on IFRA and it hasn't been accepted by any US law. However, since I sell I think it is just being cautious in following IFRA limits. Could I be considered reckless for using a rate so different than the IFRA amount? I use Cedar and Saffron at 3.5%. I have made for this fall but have really made for a couple of specific requests. I am taking it off of my regular craft fair display.

 

[lucycat]

One of the things that has bothered me the most about the BB Cedar and Saffron rate is just realizing that BB would sell a scent with a low IFRA and not even be aware of it in their usage recommendations. I have been very disappointed in comments I have seen on their site lately about BB testing scent retention for 6 weeks; as if all that is required of a quality scent is it lasting through cure. Fading is always an issue but it seems they may have abandoned trying to make sure they sell a scent that will be around in 6 months to a year. It makes me very hesitant to spend money on their new scents.

 

[dibbles]

One of the things that has bothered me the most about the BB Cedar and Saffron rate is just realizing that BB would sell a scent with a low IFRA and not even be aware of it in their usage recommendations. I have been very disappointed in comments I have seen on their site lately about BB testing scent retention for 6 weeks; as if all that is required of a quality scent is it lasting through cure. Fading is always an issue but it seems they may have abandoned trying to make sure they sell a scent that will be around in 6 months to a year. It makes me very hesitant to spend money on their new scents.

I only wish that they would have made the changes in usage rate more evident, but also give a reason for the change. Reformulation was necessary for a lot of FOs, and it would be nice to know if this was an error in usage rate from the start, or if it was due to a reformulation. Grapefruit Lily is another one I have that is suddenly not recommended for use in soap. I should, but didn't think to check if the usage rate has changed when reordering a FO I've used before. I will now though.

As to stating what the scent retention is, I don't think I've seen any suppliers that are giving a specific time that the fragrance will hold. That depends on so many variables of the product, recipe, how it is stored, etc. If any supplier stated that the fragrance lasts at least 6 months or a year in CP soap, they would be opening a huge door for complaints when it doesn't - and those complaining might be storing them unwrapped on a shelf in the garage. There is no way to control expectations beyond cure. They can say 'good scent retention' and that is about it IMO. This is why reviews from actual users are so important.

 

[Cellador]

I didn't notice that change for Grapefruit Lily either. You'd think with these long-term scents, they'd send an email or something....

 

[dibbles]

I didn't notice that change for Grapefruit Lily either. You'd think with these long-term scents, they'd send an email or something....

Well, at least post a little something that there was a change in the fragrance description...

 

[lucycat]

dibbles, I don't expect them to give a range on scent retention. What I have been unhappy with is that in several posts I have seen them say they test to make sure the scent holds for a 6 week cure. I think their testing should be for a longer time period. Deciding to sell a scent after a 6 week evaluation appears that there is no concern whether the scent holds for the long period or fades away. When I purchase fragrances from a candle company I expect I will need to do more testing but I expect more from a company that's business model has always been fragrances for soap.