Bastille soap behavior

[FrayGrants]

I’m curious as to how much olive oil would be necessary in a recipe to achieve the qualities of a bastille soap?

For example say I made a recipe with 60% OO, 15%PKO, 15% Palm, and 10% Avacado. I haven’t plugged it into a soap calc, but I’m sure the numbers probably wouldn’t look so hot.

My question is how much OO would be necessary to make a good soap? As long as there was at least 50% would it have bastille like qualities?

 

[CreativeWeirdo]

From my understanding (fully acknowledging that I might be wrong) "Bastille soap" isn't an official term.

From what I can remember, authentic "Castile soap" is 100% Olive Oil and used to be regulated as such. The big commercial soap companies petitioned to have it changed to any soap that does not include animal products. Most soap artisans, wanting to honour the traditions of the past and sticking it to the man, started using the term "bastille soap" to refer to any soap recipe that the big soap companies would consider the new "Castile" soap, but isn't 100% Olive Oil. Hence the term "Bastardised Castile".

Again, I might be wrong!

I've had lots of compliments to my soap recipe, and have had people compare it in texture to a commercial "Castile Soap". And I only use 40% Olive Oil!

I also recommend Zany's no slime castile and the thread, and subsequent threads. Many people on here have been experimenting with ZNSC. I'm sure you'll find something that works for you.

 

[FrayGrants]

I have made ZNSC a bunch of times and I certainly do like it. It actually relates very much to my question. If you plug the ZNSC recipe into a soap calc the results will tell you that you are making a less than desirable soap, but this clearly isn’t the case.

So I am asking if 50% OO would be high enough to retain some of these qualities, hardness, longevity, lather, etc..

 

[DeeAnna]

That recipe you're referring to gets its properties as much from the use of salts, not just the fatty acids inherent in olive oil. So I'm not quite sure you can directly compare this recipe to other recipes without also accounting for the effect of these additives.

For example, a 100% olive oil soap without salt-based additives isn't particularly long lived, nor is it all that physically hard (although this can vary), the lather is gelatinous and thick, and the lather builds slowly without using something to aerate the suds (loofa, scrubby, brush, etc.)

There's no universal definition about what constitutes a "bastile" recipe, so it's also hard to give a useful answer just knowing the maker thinks it's a "bastile" or even just the percentage of olive oil in the recipe. What constitutes the other 50%? What are the additives?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Just to reinforce what @CreativeWeirdo and @DeeAnna wrote above...

By legal definition, "Castile" soap contains no animal fats. So Kirk's Coconut Castile and Dr Bronner's Mild Castile Liquid Soap fit the description although neither is 100% olive oil.

Traditionally, purists within the soapmaking community consider:
Castile = 100% olive oil
Bastile = 70% or more olive oil plus other fatty acids provided by fats like coconut and castor to provide the hardness and lather that olive oil alone lacks.

ZNSC owes its hardness. lather, longevity and "no slime" characteristic (common to 100% OO castiles) to the use of 0% SF and, as @DeeAnna pointed out, to the use of faux sea salt used to create the soap.

@CreativeWeirdo is correct.

"Bastille soap" isn't an official term.

"Bastile" is "Bastardised Castile". It refers to soaps high in olive oil and exists only on soapmaking forums like SMF. There is no such thing beyond that connotation.

So I am asking if 50% OO would be high enough to retain some of these qualities, hardness, longevity, lather, etc..

The answer is yes. BUT. 50% olive oil alone won't deliver those qualities. To formulate such a bar, you would need to play around with other fatty acids aiming for an INS 160 (so-called "perfect soap"). If using no animal fats, it would technically be a "castile" but NOT a "bastile" according to the description above.

The Basic Trinity of Oils starter formula is a good place to start.

See SoapCalc Printout of Ed's Bayberry Soap PDF.. INS 157

HAPPY SOAPING!

BASIC TRINITY OF OILS SOAP - INS 157

NOTE: Soap Bar Quality is well within the recommended Ranges and well balanced.

 

[FrayGrants]

All the responses have been so helpful and informative. I completely forgot about the salt in ZNSC and how that was a contributing factor to hardness and longevity.

I am going to make up some test batches with ocean water, sodium lactate, sodium citrate, and sugar. The OO will be at least 50% with the remaining oils being made up of CO or PKO, Palm, Avocado, and Castor.

I will post results and the recipe for the one I like best. Thanks again for all the replies!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

"...ocean water, sodium lactate, sodium citrate..."

Be careful about loading soap up with various types of salts. More is not necessarily better. It's possible to make the soap permanently soft if you overdo.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

"...ocean water, sodium lactate, sodium citrate..."

Be careful about loading soap up with various types of salts. More is not necessarily better. It's possible to make the soap permanently soft if you overdo.

SO TRUE!!!