annoyed with partial gel

[Emilee]

i know gel is not a big deal to those of you who do it a lot, but I've mostly made ungelled soap, and now I'm having a darn of a time trying to make my soap gel.

most of my soap (gmcp) i've made by mixing my lye/aloe, leaving to cool to 40 celcius, then adding to my room temp oils. i've liked the creamy ungelled look.

so now i want to gel and this is what i've tried with my wooden log mold

the process above, and insulating with towels and woollen blankets = no gel

the process above and insulating with blankets in the hot water cupboard = no gel

melting my oils to 35 celcius, and adding my lye at 45 celcius and insulating with blankets = partial gel


questions:

what say i added my lye/aloe as soon as i've mixed it (usually about 60 celcius i think) to my room temp oils? would that heat them up enough to gel?

if not, what is the celcius temp that the oils must reach once poured in the mold, in order to gel fully?

i can't use an oven because i don't have one big enough for my mold.

It's been suggested i use a heat pad, but I"d have to buy one especially, and can't necessarily afford one if there's another way...

What if i added honey to every soap?

my main concern is that I'll heat the oils too much initially and ruin them, as before I started doing rtcp, i heating my oils much to much and had them volcano over a few times, and i got scared of heating oils.

just need to find that healthy balance i guess

seems like reaching full gel shouldn't be that hard, but its giving me a headache at the moment.

my partially gelled log is sitting on the bench, i can see the gel in the middle, and when i touch it, its kinda spongy, but on the outside, its the usual soft creamy soap i usually get all through when i don't try to gel.

also, how long should a soap take to gel? just a few hours i thought???

i think i've read somewhere that in order to gel, the poured soap needs to reach 150F in the mold, which is approx 65C.

so say I heated my oils to 45 and poured my lye/aloe at 45, and then insulated, maybe that would heat to 65 in the mold?

just really don't want to heat my oils much beyond 45 unless i have to...

 

[ChrissyB]

Hi Emillee!!

DO you have a couple of old ceramic tiles lying around anywhere?
I have put a couple of tiles in the oven while I am doing all my weighing, then take them out and put them in a box, then pour my soap into it's mould, put the mould on top of the hot tiles, then cover.
This works for plastic moulds because I usually do CPOP, but obviously I can't with plastic moulds. I always get full gel doing this.
And yes, I think if you start off with hotter temps in your oils and lye, it will be hotter to start thus kickstarting gel.

 

[Emilee]

Hi Chrissy

yeah, theres an idea... hot tiles. i'm sure i could find something like that.

further to that thought, most of my insulating has been blankets on the top, but perhaps the heating from underneath the mold is more/just as effective?

whats CPOP again?

 

[Emilee]

furthermore, to those who have experience with both gelled and ungelled soap, both with the making of and using of, does gelled soap usually last longer than ungelled providing both were kept on good drying racks?

 

[ChrissyB]

I think if you insulate the top, and have the heat coming through from some hot tiles underneath, you'll def. get full gel. And soaping a little warmer as well.
Even if you just used a pizza stone or something like that?
That idea was one born out of necessity because the only heat pads that I have in my house are for the reptiles and I didn't want any body to go cold...so I had to put my thinking cap on. We had a few tiles left over from when we renovated our bathroom, so that's how I came up with that.
You could heat them in the oven, put a tea towel over the top, then your mould, then wrap it in a towel or something. Just keep an eye on it though cos you don't want it to get too hot. I keep an eye on mine, once it reaches full gel I open it back up and let it cool, preferably next to a window or something.
Tiles are good cos they hold the heat for ages.
I prefer to gel my soap because I know that the saponification is complete. I have never been zapped by soap that has gelled, whereas ungelled I have been zapped up to two days after.
CPOP is Cold Process Oven Process. Just means you mix it all the same as usual, but stick it in the oven to gel. Some people leave it in all night (on low), I keep an eye on it and take it out as soon as it's fully gelled to the corners, usually just over an hour.
Why don't you make a normal batch, gel half, un gel the other, then test it and see what you prefer?

 

[topcat]

Chrissy has some great ideas! Hi Emilee - I only make small 1000g oil batches so I am probably not able to help you out here. You mentioned honey - any soap I add honey to gells very well. Yet I prefer to use organic raw sugar as I don't have blending issues with that. I use 1 Tablespoon sugar per 1000g oils and dissolve this in some liquid discounted from my lye liquid. I add this at very early trace. It does add a caramel colour to my gelled GM soap. And I insulate both under and over the mould - I put the mould on top of a thick folded towel and add towels to the top (I check it at 1 hour and see how the gel is going.) I use a plastic mould and find I need to wrap it up really well with the weather getting cooler to get a full gel.

Tanya

 

[Emilee]

Hi Tanya

yeah, I'm gonna try the pizza stone idea tomorrow i think (thanks Chrissy)

so, you add sugar to help it gel? why do you have issues blending honey? I've always added sugar for lather, but i guess its good for the heat too...

how many oz is 1000g?

and you must melt your oils then if you're only using towels and a plastic mold?

i've been doing rtcp so long, and not melting my oils, its really annoying having to melt to get gel. I"ve been doing a bit of reading up too, and I'm actually wondering if I pour my soap at false trace most of the time... my soap always seems great to me, and i usually get good reviews... have you had any exp. with false trace? and is false trace a bad thing?

 

[Guest]

I use one of microwaveable heat packs like for your neck or back.Microwave it for 5 minutes . Cover it with a towel , set the mold on it and cover again.I have not yet ,touch wood experienced partial gel.

 

[topcat]

Hi Tanya

yeah, I'm gonna try the pizza stone idea tomorrow i think (thanks Chrissy)

so, you add sugar to help it gel? why do you have issues blending honey? I've always added sugar for lather, but i guess its good for the heat too...

how many oz is 1000g?

and you must melt your oils then if you're only using towels and a plastic mold?

i've been doing rtcp so long, and not melting my oils, its really annoying having to melt to get gel. I"ve been doing a bit of reading up too, and I'm actually wondering if I pour my soap at false trace most of the time... my soap always seems great to me, and i usually get good reviews... have you had any exp. with false trace? and is false trace a bad thing?

It is the sugars in our ingredients, as I understand it, that increase the heat factor during saponification. Milk does this too, because of the sugar in it I believe. It is also good to boost fluffy lather in a milk soap. Honey will do the same - I just haven't worked out a reliable method for adding it so that it blends in fully. I have only used it twice and got little honey spots through the soap both times. I have recently read that I should warm it and mix it into some liquid held back from the lye water, so I will try that next time :wink:

1000g is 35.274 oz. Here is a helpful link to convert measurements:-

http://www.worldwidemetric.com/metcal.htm

I melt my solid oils until just melted and add my liquid oils to that. I then let this cool down to somewhere between 25 and 38 degrees celcius before soaping, depending on the batch ingredients. I make sure my lye water is the same temp.

I have never had a false trace yet. I tend to get trace pretty quickly with my recipes - sorry!

Tanya