White Color using CP, but normal using HP process. ??

[Gaspar Navarrete]

Hello everyone and happy holidays,

I have done the 50% OO, 23 % Palm, 21% CO, and 6% Castor oil a few times now using HP process, and I liked the outcome.

The color of the soap has always been orange due to the red palm oil.

This time (to experiment), I did the same recipe using cold process.

A few days into the curing, the batch turned completely white ! The white color was 1/4 inch deep (inside was the normal orange color)

Other people have said this is soda ash and is harmless, however what I'd like to know is why the white color this time ?

Thanks for your attention

 

[jcandleattic]

IF it's soda ash, that's why the white color. Without a picture it's hard to tell what it could be. Did you color with ANY colorants at all? what was your scent? Certain scents can discolor, however, I've never heard of one discoloring to white. LOL Only darker.

 

[CaraBou]

Ash would not be 1/4 inch thick. Can you post a pic?

 

[SunRiseArts]

That is weird, because I have use red palm in CP, and in HP, and it always turns orange - ish.

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

Hello everyone,

I did not use any scents or coloring at all.

Here is the pic of the soap. You can see remnants of the orange in the interior center of the soap.

 

[SaltedFig]

From your photo, it looks like you have color fading in the sunlight as the soap cures.

Can I ask if you used a new batch of red palm oil?

If you did, I would be inclined to suspect that the red came from a dye.

 

[SunRiseArts]

Interesting. red palm can do crazy things. I made one without color, that turned out having brown swirls. When asked it was mention that was probably the fragrance, but I had mix it with the emulsion stick, so that should have not happen. :-?

Is probably safe o use after cure though. I would not worry too much.

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

It was a new batch of red palm oil. I bought it from the store two days before.

I was under the impression that the NaOH reacted with the CO2 in the air before it reacted with the oils. I'm not sure.

For more details on the ingredients, see these pictures. I used the same ingredients. The only difference is that this time there was no crock-pot; all cold process. That resulting orange color in the soap was what I was regularly getting.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=57994

 

[SaltedFig]

There was a science publication last year (2016), where a number of different brands from shops in Washington DC were tested. 4 brands were found to contain a particular red dye, with 3 brands containing significant quantities of the dye. It may be possible that something like this could cause the effect you are experiencing.

There were recalls of similarly dyed "red" palm oils in the UK the year before (2015, by the Food Standards Agency).

Perhaps try again with a different brand, to see if the results go back to what you are used to with your HP soaps?

PS. Your HP ones look lovely, no wonder you are trying to recreate them in CP!

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

I thought that red palm oil was naturally red. I didn't realize that some of them could have been dyed red. I don't see why the manufacturers would want to do this.

Do you happen to know what that pulication was ?

 

[SaltedFig]

I thought that red palm oil was naturally red. I didn't realize that some of them could have been dyed red. I don't see why the manufacturers would want to do this.

Do you happen to know what that pulication was ?

Red palm oil is naturally (not really red) in shades ranging through golden to orange-red (similar to the range of colours pumpkins have).

The dyed version is where a cheaper oil is substituted in, somewhere in the supply chain (it may not necessarily be the manufacturer at fault). The problem is similar to the "fake" olive oil about a decade ago, and is for the purpose of making money by deception. The unfortunate issue with this substitution is that the dye they are using, to get the right red color, is not safe.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4888373/

 

[DeeAnna]

...I had mix it with the emulsion stick, so that should have not happen....

A stick blender does not thoroughly stir all the soap batter. You must scrape the sides of the soap pot with a spatula and mix that batter into the body of the soap batter before pouring the batter into the mold. If you do not scrape and stir well, then smaller portions of the soap may indeed look different than the bulk of the soap.

 

[lenarenee]

Why can't people and business be honest? Why can't they take pride in offering the best product they reasonably can?

Just for the record, red palm oil isn't red in the jar, it's a deep yellow to yellow-orange color. (in case there are newbies reading this)

The red palm (which I don't buy any more btw) In the past always noticed a strong smell of pumpkin or squash. Both of those are high in beta carotene (like carrots) so I imagined that was the reason for the odor. Not unpleasant to me; like cutting a pumpkin for Halloween!
Does anyone know if this would be a good way for someone to detect an authentic palm oil product?

 

[penelopejane]

Why can't people and business be honest? Why can't they take pride in offering the best product they reasonably can?

Does anyone know if this would be a good way for someone to detect an authentic palm oil product?

They cheat because it is cheaper to do so - to make money!
Why else would anyone use any of the filler oils that they do in soap - because it is cheap. Sensible to do in some cases.

 

[SunRiseArts]

A stick blender does not thoroughly stir all the soap batter. You must scrape the sides of the soap pot with a spatula and mix that batter into the body of the soap batter before pouring the batter into the mold. If you do not scrape and stir well, then smaller portions of the soap may indeed look different than the bulk of the soap.

Thanks DeAnna, I am always learning, I thought that stick was like magic wand!

 

[SunRiseArts]

Why can't people and business be honest? Why can't they take pride in offering the best product they reasonably can?

Just for the record, red palm oil isn't red in the jar, it's a deep yellow to yellow-orange color. (in case there are newbies reading this)

The red palm (which I don't buy any more btw) In the past always noticed a strong smell of pumpkin or squash. Both of those are high in beta carotene (like carrots) so I imagined that was the reason for the odor. Not unpleasant to me; like cutting a pumpkin for Halloween!
Does anyone know if this would be a good way for someone to detect an authentic palm oil product?

I know right. Is very frustrating!

 

[earlene]

I have only used the red palm oil from one jar I bought at the grocery store once. It definitely produces orange soap that stays orange throughout it's life as far as I can tell. Yep, I'd be willing to wager you got some 'adulterated' red palm oil with dye that was not lye stable. So I wonder what substitute oils were used and if the Palm SAP value is even valid for that batch?

What a bummer to find that we spend our money on what we expect to be a properly and honestly labeled product only to learn that we have been duped!

This article states there is a simple test for detecting this adulteration that you can perform at home. See page 4, section 3.5 detection.

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks DeAnna, I am always learning, I thought that stick was like magic wand!

No! That’s a vacuum cleaner!

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

There is something that I not understanding.

If the dye was not stable in lye, then ALL of the soap (cold or hot process) that I have made with this Palm Oil should turn out white, even if I use hot-process.

The label on my palm oil has: "USDA organic", "palmdoneright.com", "fair trade certified by IMO". The Nutiva website elaborates on these labels (https://store.nutiva.com/red-palm-oil/) . Do these mean anything ?.

 

[cmzaha]

They cheat because it is cheaper to do so - to make money!
Why else would anyone use any of the filler oils that they do in soap - because it is cheap. Sensible to do in some cases.

And what are filler oils, lard because it is cheap, canola oil because most people do not like it, and I love it in soap over OO. Different oils add different feels to soap, because a particular oil is cheaper than others is it now a filler oil. I assume now my soap made with tallow, lard, canola is made with all filler oils. Please clarify what filler oils are...BTW yellow shea which is not a cheap oil is dyed many times. Forgot to mention I hate high OO in soap and put it in very few soaps...