Non gel help

[Crafty Rose]

i tried to make a btch of soap without gelling yesterday but still ended up with a partial gel.

I soaped at 30 degress her not sure what that is on the other scale but under 100. I had the mould in the fridge, put it in the freezer.

I waited a little while after taking out of the freezer to cut, but the edges were all sloppy like there were watery, any deas on what I can do differently next time?

 

[Hazel]

I've had problems when I've soaped that cool but I haven't had this problem. Would you please post your recipe? This would help with troubleshooting.

 

[Sunny]

you sometimes have to wait longer to unmold ungelled/partially gelled soaps. they don't harden up as quickly and are sticky! how long did you leave it in the mold?

 

[Crafty Rose]

I've had problems when I've soaped that cool but I haven't had this problem. Would you please post your recipe? This would help with troubleshooting.

percentages are a bit wierd as it is a larger recipe that reduced using soapcalc
Olive Oil 40.27%
Coconut oil 25.2%
Palm oil 23.49%
Shea Butter 6.04%
Castor oil 5%

was in the freezer for18 hours, so the soggy edges might just be that it wasn't firm yet?

 

[Fragola]

Yes, maybe it's not firm yet.

I don't do many frozen soaps, but it seems to me that pouring at a thinner trace, working fast and setting the freezer to it's maximum setting if pretty foolproof.

Except that if you have a fragrance or some other accelerator, you can get instant gel (before you have the time to freeze it).

 

[Hazel]

Tasha's right about ungelled soaps needing longer to set up. I've had a couple of batches which needed several days in the frig before they stopped zapping. However, I've never had watery edges with mine. I think you may not have mixed long enough. A problem with soaping so cool is you get false trace and then the soap separates. I think that's what happened but this is just my opinion.

Your recipe looks nice. How much lye did you add to the batch? How long did you blend the lye and oils?

I've discovered my problem with soaping cool is I'm not mixing long enough and I'm getting separation. I also think because the batch is so cool that the palm oil is starting to firm up which causes lumps in the soap. I rebatched and the soaps turned out fine. Not attractive but at least they had good lather and didn't burn my skin off. If you used enough lye, I'd try to rebatch since it was in the frig for 18 hours and still hasn't set up. It may just need to be mixed together more.

Have you looked at Kathy Miller's site? She has a great section on common problems with CP. It's been very helpful for me. Here's the link to the troubleshooting page.

http://millersoap.com/trouble.html

 

[carebear]

Yes, maybe it's not firm yet.

I don't do many frozen soaps, but it seems to me that pouring at a thinner trace, working fast and setting the freezer to it's maximum setting if pretty foolproof.

Except that if you have a fragrance or some other accelerator, you can get instant gel (before you have the time to freeze it).

Not so. No method is foolproof when it comes to preventing gel, even when no issue with FOs or what not. I'm living proof of that.

OP - the watery edges is concerning. Perhaps your mix wasn't completely emulsified - is the liquid caustic? Soaping cool can actually be a bit confusing and you can quit mixing early when you see what we call false trace, as Hazel describes.

 

[Fragola]

No method is foolproof when it comes to preventing gel, even when no issue with FOs or what not. I'm living proof of that.

So you've had soaps gel in your freezer ... Have you checked how cold exactly your freezer gets ?

Also, forgot to mention the molds - bigger molds and with thicker walls hold in more heat.

 

[dcornett]

Just wondering what your soaps look like now after they've had time to set? I don't put mine in the freezer, I tried it once and didn't like the outcome so I can't offer much advice here. :?

 

[carebear]

So you've had soaps gel in your freezer ... Have you checked how cold exactly your freezer gets ?

it didn't gel IN the freezer, but after taking out. it's always a bit challenging to shower in there.
the story is on this forum somewhere.
and it's happened to others, also.

 

[soapbuddy]

I prefer not to gel. Mine go in the fridge or the freezer. If there's no room, I elevate the mold and put a fan on it to dissipate any heat. That seems to help. My soap batches can take up to three days to completely saponify, but they are cut usually within 12 hours. I use sodium lactate to make the bars harder.

 

[carebear]

So you've had soaps gel in your freezer ... Have you checked how cold exactly your freezer gets ?

it didn't gel IN the freezer, but after taking out. it's always a bit challenging to shower in there.
the story is on this forum somewhere.

as for how cold my freezer gets - it gets freezing cold.
and it's happened to others, also.

 

[debbism]

you sometimes have to wait longer to unmold ungelled/partially gelled soaps. they don't harden up as quickly and are sticky! how long did you leave it in the mold?

THIS.....

I have noticed the soaps that had partial gel are mushy around the edges and they take longer to cure and instead of the semi translucent cream color, they are more snowy white and not so translucent. Odd thing for me, these partial gel soaps are prone to a pinkish discoloration on some of the edges. I chuck those bars

 

[soapbuddy]

Odd thing for me, these partial gel soaps are prone to a pinkish discoloration on some of the edges. I chuck those bars

The pink discoloration could be from coconut oil. That should disappear after a full cure.

 

[debbism]

Odd thing for me, these partial gel soaps are prone to a pinkish discoloration on some of the edges. I chuck those bars

The pink discoloration could be from coconut oil. That should disappear after a full cure.

Actually, the pinkish color appears after about 4-5 weeks of curing. Some with coconut oil, some made without

 

[ericllucas]

Okay, I'm going to quit wondering and just ask...why would you want to stop the soap from gelling? I thought gelling was a natural and necessary part of the process, but it obviously must not be.

Why not let it gel?

 

[Crafty Rose]

SOrry keep trying to reply and then get summons by my baby.

i didn;t want to soap to gel as the description said it morphs at high heats, I also wanted to try a soap without geling as something different as I had read about it.

I am pretty sure it reached a true trace as when I when to pu the bit on top it was getting a bit thick, When I read about maybe it started gelling before it hit the freezer I thought maybe that was it, I had to wake hubby to open the doors and well he slept through a car accident once(he wasn;t driving) so safe to say, it took a while to wake him.

I think all oils were good and melted, as I waited a while after they melted to make sure. Once my baby is in bed I will try and put up some pics.

 

[judymoody]

Okay, I'm going to quit wondering and just ask...why would you want to stop the soap from gelling? I thought gelling was a natural and necessary part of the process, but it obviously must not be.

Why not let it gel?

Generally I prefer to gel but not always. I try to suppress gel when:

I am using fragrances or essential oils that are prone to burning off or morphing.

I want a particular color effect. Non gelled soaps tend to be softer looking and more opaque. Gelled are more translucent looking, almost waxy, and the colors will be more vibrant and defined.

If I don't gel, I add an extra week to my cure time before distributing. The soap still saponifies but at a lower temperature it takes longer. I also have to wait a few days before unmolding if I don't gel. If I gel, I can pop it out as soon as the soap is cool to the touch, generally within 24 hours of pouring or even sooner.

 

[ericllucas]

Thanks for the responses - I'm wondering if not gelling affects the composition or performance of the soap. I would think gelling is a chemical process. If you don't gel, you don't get the chemical process changing things. It is good to know it impacts the physical appearance of the soap and keeps the EO from disappearing. Thanks again!

 

[Fragola]

It's not chemical, it's physical, a crystallization matter.

Just like you have candied sugar and powdered sugar. Same molecules dancing a different dance.