Epic CP Soap Failure

[jiroband]

After nearly a year of making soap, I’ve just experienced my first EPIC failure, and I can’t figure out what happened! I’ve had some close calls – like a couple of times when I experienced really fast acceleration – where I had to mash the soap mixture down into the mold with a spatula; but, this is the first time I had to throw the whole batch out. For some unknown reason, the blue color I added (pre-mixed ultramarine blue and glycerin) began to separate out from the soap mixture.

I was using a soap base recipe that I’ve used successfully several times before. This time, I altered it to make a peppermint soap. I normally do not add artificial color, but this time I wanted to experiment and add a tiny amount of blue just to give the soap a very pale blue, icy color. The things I did differently include:

1. Using water instead of goat milk (I usually make goat milk soap, but I used water this time to keep the base as white as possible.)

2. I combined the fats and lye solution at a warmer temperature than I usually do. This time at around 118 degrees.

3. Using an artificial color. I purchased a powdered ultramarine blue pigment from an online soapmaking supplier, and mixed it at a rate of 1 tablespoon of pigment to 1 oz. glycerin. This made a very thick, syrup-like mixture.

After mixing all ingredients, except for the color (I was saving this for last), I brought the mixture to trace, and began adding the color one drop at a time – eventually, I think I used about a teaspoon of my liquid color mixture. My soap mixture was thicker than usual, about the consistency of really thick pudding (it would hold the spoon straight up). I wasn’t too concerned, because my soap mixtures tend to be thick as I pour them into the mold. I also noticed that the bowl felt like it was really heating up. Everything seemed to be going well, but then the texture started to change. It became very light and spongy – then I started to notice tiny specks of blue liquid. I mixed more and more with my stick blender to try to get this blue liquid to mix back in, but the more I mixed, the more it started to separate. Now, I had pockets of liquid blue color and a ring of blue liquid around the perimeter of the bowl. (See photo.) The soap mixture became the consistency of tofu, mixed with pockets of blue liquid. I stood there staring in disbelief.




A strange observation:
The blue liquid that separated out is runny, like water. Also, there is a great deal more blue liquid that separated out in comparison to the teaspoon of thick, syrupy color that I added. I’m not sure if this matters, but I did add quite a bit of tea tree oil (1 oz.) and fragrance oil (about 2.5 oz.) to this 2.5 lbs. batch of soap. However, this has not been a problem for me before.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what happened? What is the best way to add color to your batch of soap? At what time during the process? Could I have just mixed the powdered pigment into the soap mixture? (By the way, the pigment container did say to mix with glycerin.) Thanks!

 

[judymoody]

For what it's worth, I mix pigments with a little bit of my soaping oils to make a uniform paste or slurry. If I'm only coloring a portion of my soap batter, I bring it to emulsification and then add my colorant. Then I blend to desired level of trace.

Don't know what UM blue you used but if it's the very dark blue, a little goes a long way.

I've never experienced what you describe so I don't think I can be much help, sorry!

 

[AmyW]

Very odd, I don't know why that would happen.

I am lazy with color. I get it to light trace and put my amount of colorant on a little pile on top. Put the SB right on top of the color, push down and blend. Once the colored soap is oozing out the edges of the SB, I blend it into the rest. I have yet to get any chunks or whatever, BUT I've only ever used a couple types of ultramarines and cocoa powder to color with. Besides being lazy, I'm nowhere near as creative as a lot of soapers here so I'm not as adventurous lol

 

[paillo]

i've had something like this happen twice in the last week!!!!! one was a beautiful pale green cucumber soap scented with white sage and eucalyptus EOs. i've made this fine before. this time oils and water separated out after it seized almost immediately. i immediately threw the mess in the crockpot for an hour. everything re-incorporated and it will still be fine soap, but my pretty pale green is now a nasty tan-ish color. ugh!

i'm really thinking it's heat-humidity related -- only other time i remember this was soaping on hot, humid august days. at least i HOPE that's the problem!

nothing to lose by immediately trying to hp the mess. i'd rather try that before i throw it out, even if i do ultimately have to throw it out good luck with the next batch!

 

[jiroband]

Thanks for the comments, everyone -- I do appreciate your thoughts and advice! I think next time I will let everything cool down to around 95 - 100 degrees before combining, and try adding a tiny bit of powdered pigment -- not mixed with anything -- at slight trace.

If any other thoughts come to mind, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[Guest]

I would mix it with glycerin probably it needs the glycerin to bind and there is something reactive (ultramarines are typically Cr2O3 or something similar - I would bet the Cr or bound metal is being cleaved and the O is reacting, but that may not be the case) anyway why don't you just try mixing with the glycerin and seeing what happens. I think that is the problem.

 

[jiroband]

Tiki,

If you read my original post at the top, you will see that that is what I did - mix the ultramarine blue with glycerine.

 

[Sunny]

I usually mix my color (micas mostly) with a bit of my soaping oils like judymoody said ... I take out a teeny bit of the oil after they've all been melted together, maybe 2 tbsp of oil, and mix my mica into that, then add that to the whole batch when I'm ready. I don't know if soaping warmer would have caused this - I soap very warm most of the time these days and stuff only separates for me when I use fruit/veggie purees in the batter. (and it happens every darn time!)

be careful with the amount of fo/eo that you are adding to your soap batter also... most soapers like to do .5 to 1 ounce of fragrance for each lb of soaping oils. whatever you decide to use is fine as long as it is within the manufacturer's guidelines.

 

[smittenheart]

Im going to guess that it was the fo/eo that started to seize the soap and the colorant was left to cruise without being part of the soap party

The only issue ive had with putting dry/powdered colorant directly into soap batter is that sometimes it can be speckled if not incorporated well..and sometimes with quick movers its hard to avoid the speckles :/

Were you wanting it to be all one color or swirly??

 

[carebear]

I would mix it with glycerin probably it needs the glycerin to bind and there is something reactive (ultramarines are typically Cr2O3 or something similar - I would bet the Cr or bound metal is being cleaved and the O is reacting, but that may not be the case) anyway why don't you just try mixing with the glycerin and seeing what happens. I think that is the problem.

What is it that the glycerin binding, exactly? I'd like to see the chemistry involved. Can you show the equation, please? Hope it's not asking too much - since you offer in your signature to answer chemistry questions.

 

[carebear]

guess it ain't gonna happen. oh well.

 

[Soaplady22]

I think maybe you just soaped too hot - bring it down to around 100 or 105. And that is way more FO than I use for 2.5# batch. So it's a combination of the two, in my book.
Never heard of the problem with ultramarines - I'm curious as to the chemistry of this also.

 

[BakingNana]

I don't have any chemistry background whatsoever other than what I've learned through soaping. A thought occurred to me - could the glycerine be either a poor quality and/or have some alcohol in it? I vaguely (very vaguely) remember alcohol or ethyl alcohol being involved somehow with glycerine. Maybe the glycerine was contaminated somehow and contains enough alcohol to seize the soap? Carebear -- comment "chemically" please!

 

[photoshadows]

I agree with everyone that this sounds odd, but I would definietly try soaping cooler and if the EO was something you hadn't used before, I would guess that, the Glycerin or the combination of the two was the problem. It sounds like it may have been setting up quickly (likely because of the temp) before you even got to the color so I'd guess the color just didn't really have a chance to mix in. It's so frustrating when you've been going along without much trouble for a while and then all of a sudden you get something seemingly unexplainable that ruins everything! If at first you don't succeed, try, try again right?

 

[LauraHoosier]

I would mix it with glycerin probably it needs the glycerin to bind and there is something reactive (ultramarines are typically Cr2O3 or something similar - I would bet the Cr or bound metal is being cleaved and the O is reacting, but that may not be the case) anyway why don't you just try mixing with the glycerin and seeing what happens. I think that is the problem.

What is it that the glycerin binding, exactly? I'd like to see the chemistry involved. Can you show the equation, please? Hope it's not asking too much - since you offer in your signature to answer chemistry questions.

Its not in the sig line now, CB. Maybe that's why there was no response to your question. I'd put a wink here but it seems rude to do so besides not being what I'm aiming for.

 

[IrishLass]

I use powdered UM Blue a lot and what I do is mix it with some reserved water (or milk) from my liquid amount. My batches are 2.5 lbs., so just a little liquid is all that I need- maybe 2 tsp. to a tbsp. or so- just enough to dissolve/disperse it). If I am coloring the whole batch of soap blue, I add the UM/water mixture right into my oils before adding the lye. That way I can freely stickblend it in real well without having to worry about accelerating trace. Then I add the lye solution, stirring and briefly stickblending alternately until trace. Works great for me.

If I'm coloring just a portion of my batch to swirl with, I do the same- mix with a little reserved liquid- but I then set it aside until my oils and lye are just emulsified. Then I remove some of the raw soap batter to my UM blue/water mixture (which is sitting in a measuring cup, btw) and stickblend it to combine right in the cup, and then swirl it into my batter.


IrishLass

 

[carebear]

I don't believe it's a problem with the glycerin - the only thing along those lines could be that it was contaminated with water (it's hygroscopic), but I don't think that would cause it anyway.