Aussie Soapers - NICNAS Registration

[ChrissyB]

Hi Everyone
Talking to a friend of mine, I was made aware of the need to register with a government body to be able to sell soaps here in Australia, seeing as though soap is seen as a cosmetic (through the eyes of the govt, I see it as necessity, but I digress).
As best I can work out, even if you sell one bar of soap, you need to be registered with NICNAS at the tier 1 level, at a cost of $380 per year (August through to Sept, or something like that). You only qualify to register as tier one if you sell less than $500,000 for that registered year.
Over that and you go to tier 2, don't think I would have to worry about that! LOL
So, my question is this: How many Aussie Soapers that sell their wares have gone through this process, and was it difficult to register, there seems to be an awful lot of processes to go through to get "approved".
Declaring all ingredients, etc....
The friend that I was speaking with is a very renowned soapmaker, and for her the NICNAS registration is making selling soap not really worth it at all.So where do the rest of us stand? And apparently it's illegal to sell soap if not registered and approved.

 

[Gobbler's Run]

I am registered with NICNAS as there is a huge fine for selling with out being registered. I just can't afford to be fined. I pay $381 a year in August. The cost of that plus the $600 product and public liability insurance means I need to sell a lot of soap each year but saying that it's what I love to do and infact I have just given up my full time job last week to focus fully on building my business and am loving it!!!

 

[Gobbler's Run]

There didn't seem to any 'approval' process at all just a matter of reading the website and labeling correctly, it's the same as the ACCC regulations on soap labeling pretty much.

 

[ChrissyB]

Thanks Kristy, I'm glad someone replied to me.
I too know that there are huge fines out there if you get caught. I thought that there was a bit more to it than just filling out the forms, did you have to submit examples of your labels to them to be approved?
It's not very well advertised, or made clear, for want of a better term, that it's something that has to be done, how did you hear about it?
Is there an approval fee on top of the $381 for the year?
So, with your insurance, you're looking at selling at least $1000 worth of soap to even get back in the black.
I am not being nosy, but have you done that? Meaning, is it worth it?
And good for you being able to quit your full time job, that's great.
PS, your shaving soap is lovely! but I'll talk about that in the correct place.

 

[Gobbler's Run]

I read about it on the Aussie Soap Supplies website first. Then another soaper from another forum I'm on mentioned that soapers selling on eBay were writing that they were registered and not to buy from those that aren't. So I thought I better look into it. I didn't have to send them anything other than the money. No approval fees or anything. You do receive a nice certificate though.
I have been doing OK from the webstore but I do better at markets cause I just love rabbiting on about how great handmade soaps are compared to commercial. I find if you can engage with customers and make them feel good about the product they are more comfortable buying. I'm a real people person so I just love that side of it. So yes I did just cover costs last year but I'm hoping that this year will be bigger and better! fingers crossed.

 

[DelightSociety]

I didn't know about this, thanks for the info.

Would it only cover business? Rather than a hobbiest. I could see it being difficult to police for people who make a bit and sell at the odd market.

 

[topcat]

Hi Chrissy! Just reading this thread now.....yes, my understanding too is that you just pay your fee and fill out the forms necessary. I am just in the process of getting started with CP (this registration isn't necessary for MP) and will definitely persue this if my business start-up takes off.

Tanya

 

[kaseencook]

What! Bugger! Ages ago when I started I looked into all the legal stuff and never found anything about this registration! I found all the labeling rules, but nothing about rego. I am on their site now looking for more info about soap and can't find anything specifically about soap - they certainly do not make this stuff easy to find. :x

Shoot, it is so expensive too, and I definitely don't sell THAT much soap to make it worth the expense and all the work that goes into making $350 worth of PROFIT on top of all the other crap.... sigh..... I am feeling a bit down now.... maybe I will have to stop selling soaps. What a pain, I don't think that making soap makers pay a huge fee with no testing of the soap is really protecting anyone from bad soap. What benefit does the government think this registration provides to the public if all you do is just pay money without any testing of the soap? Why does giving them your information have to cost so much!? I think I am just ranting now...

Time to go cry in a hole.... :cry:

 

[DelightSociety]

Whats interesting is it states you need to register if you make soap for cosmetic purposes.

Definatly a soap for the face would be considered cosmetic but what about ordinary soap? Is washing yourself considered cosmetic?

 

[topcat]

My reading led me to believe that if it falls under the definition of a soap, you are expected to register.

Kaseen - I am sure it is just a money-spinner for the government.....

Tanya

 

[ChrissyB]

Yes, my understanding is that the government views soap as a cosmetic product, any soap, facial or body.
And I am also of the belief if it is just a form filling process, and you pay your fee, it's just a money spinner, there isn't actually any quality control testing or any ingredient testing or anything like that.
TC, why isn't MP classed the same as CP? Is it because you don't actually make the product from scratch? But you still have to disclose to the consumer what your ingredients are right?

Aye Aye, this is all getting a bit much for me, it's making my head hurt!!

 

[ChrissyB]

I also believe that there is a large fine if you are caught selling hand crafted soap but are not registered with NICNAS. I don't know how much it is, but I am trying to find out.

 

[DelightSociety]

So yay! One more thing to fork out cash for. Thanks for pointing this out I would never have known otherwise.

 

[Gobbler's Run]

I seem to remember that the fine is up to $13000 but I might be wrong but bloody hell its a lot :cry:

 

[ChrissyB]

Yes that is a lot.
Much better option to pay the $380 than get done for $13,000.
But it's totally ludicrous in my opinion, it's just another money grabber for the govt. I imagine that if you were operating your own business, you would be filing quarter BAS statements and paying tax on all your sales, so this is just another way for the govt to grab a few more dollars off hard working aussies that are trying to make a go of it.

 

[kaseencook]

Well at least the good thing is, is if you have a soap business and make less than $100,000 you do not have to register for GST. It is just insane though! I wonder if anyone gets caught. I am sure there are tons of people out there who are not so internet savy (perhaps older people) who make and sell soap and have no idea. As well as other people like me who never found this information. Urg!

 

[Manda]

Appropriate Links

Hi everyone,

Thanks for bringing this to attention. I agree that not many people would be aware that these regulations are in place or even that they would apply to people who make soap, toiletries and cosmetics on a small-scale or as a hobby.

I've done some research on the NICNAS website and found some links to some vital information which may help to clarify the issue of "When does this apply to me?"

Soap Makers Fact Sheet
This fact sheet explains that MP soap makers do not need to register (providing the MP base is bought in Australia) but that CP/HP soap makers do need to register, and it explains why.

Cosmetics Fact Sheet
This fact sheet is similar to the soap fact sheet but relates to cosmetics & toiletries generally.

I do think it's wrong of the Government to charge such a substancial registration fee for small producers. I also think it's wrong that all you need to do is register and there is nothing said about any kind of monitoring of what is going into your product, as someone previously said, what benefit is this to the consumer? The consumer still has no idea whether what they're buying contains a safe formulation of ingredients. :shock:

-Amanda

 

[ChrissyB]

I totally agree, Amanda. I think it's crazy that it's mandatory to register, yet there is no quality control component to the whole exercise.
The general public consumer doesn't benefit in anyway from this, it's just this govt dept that is raising a bit of extra revenue.
I think that soapers would be much more likely to register and be proud of their registration if it is was optional, but certified them as "quality approved by the aust govt" or something like that, versus Joe Blow making soap with no govt regulation. I know who I would buy soap from.
But it's not the situation so it's irrelevent.
Silly govt....
(coming from a public service employee.... :wink: )

Edited because I can't spell today

 

[kaseencook]

I wish there was some where to petition this, like an ombudsman or something. Surely they should not be allowed to pointlessly charge those kind of registration rates without any benefit to the soap maker or public and get away with it - especially if they have a huge fine for not obeying this silly law! It's like how some poor people in Victoria got fined a huge fine for chopping down trees on their OWN property to protect themselves from bush fire, which they were very lucky that they did because their house did not get burned down on black Saturday, if they had followed the council they would have lost their house and perhaps their lives. I could rant on and on about this kind of silly gov stuff

They should invent the "common sense council" where silly fees and laws are abolished!

 

[Becky]

There has been a lot of discussion about this on the Aussie Soapers yahoo list. I haven't logged in there in 6 months or so, so I can't quite remember the details, but a lot of the members were writing to their local member of parliament in regards to this issue.

One of the list mums went to an info session regarding the registration, and came back with quite a lot of great info. She also mentioned that people are being encouraged to dob in anyone that is not registered. That's just un-Australian!! It is something to be aware of tho, because it's an easy way for your competitor to cause trouble for you.

I do agree that it appears to be simply revenue raising, as there is no kind of quality-control process that is going along with the rego, but it is a necessary evil I think. Not paying the $380 fee is not going to be that much of a money saver if you get caught & have to pay some huge fine.