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Guspuppy

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I remember reading sometime back that regular wire hangars had a coating on them so that they would not cause any DOS issues even if you didn’t tape them up. I did a hangar swirl the other night and neglected to wipe the soap batter off my hangar before putting it in the sink with other dishes to wash a few days later. So this morning when I washed the hangar, all the coating came off where the soap batter had been. Do you think there will be a higher than usual possibility of DOS with this batch of soap? It’s a tester so not horrid if so, I was just curious.
 

DeeAnna

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I use a regular coat hanger for hanger swirls. Hangers are usually made of steel, which is way better than anything that contains copper.

While I think it's good to minimize the use of metal tools when making soap, I am willing to compromise on the hanger tool because it's only in contact with the soap for a few seconds. Another thing is I don't put the batter I scrape off the tool back into the molded soap -- the scrapings go in the trash.

Sometimes people wrap the wire with electrical tape or slip a plastic tube (drinking straw or something like that) over the wire to protect the soap from the metal.

I've never noticed any DOS problems with soap that I've hanger swirled, but I also use a chelator. I think a chelator is good insurance against problems from metal contamination.
 
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Basil

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I've never noticed any DOS problems with soap that I've hanger swirled, but I also use a chelator. I think a chelator is good insurance against problems from metal contamination.
Hi, could you explain what a chelator is? I’ve seen that word used before . Thanks!
 

DeeAnna

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A chelator does two things in soap. Its most important function is to immobilize metals in soap that can cause rancidity (aka DOS, dreaded orange spots). A chelator can also reduce the amount of soap scum that is created when lye-based soap reacts with minerals in hard water.

These articles about chelators provide more info -- Table of contents | Soapy Stuff
 

Todd Ziegler

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@DeeAnna can explain chelator better than me but if you want to continue using a coat hanger, go to a hardware store and get some electric shrink tubes. There only a few dollars and just use your hair dryer or a heat gun to shrink it in place.
 

Todd Ziegler

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A chelator does two things in soap. Its most important function is to immobilize metals in soap that can cause rancidity (aka DOS, dreaded orange spots). A chelator can also reduce the amount of soap scum that is created when lye-based soap reacts with minerals in hard water.

These articles about chelators provide more info -- Table of contents | Soapy Stuff
I could not remember but do you use EDTA and if you master batch it? If so, what does your EDTA look like when it's mixed with water? The reason I am asking is because I mixed up a batch from a new bag and it is some what clear but from the old bag it had a milky white look and wouldn't stay mixed. I had to shake it every time.
 

DeeAnna

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I currently do use tetrasodium EDTA, but when that's gone, I'm switching to sodium gluconate. Might be awhile, though.

Yes, I masterbatch tetrasodium EDTA as a 50% concentration (half EDTA powder, half distilled water by weight). It is water clear with no sediment.

My guess is you have disodium EDTA, not tetrasodium. The DI form is only slightly soluble in plain water. You can dissolve DI in an NaOH solution, however. Basically you're converting it to the TETRA form when you do this.

See this article -- EDTA | Soapy Stuff -- and scroll down to the bottom where it says "Extra credit 1: How to convert DIsodium EDTA to TETRAsodium EDTA?" Try it on a small sample of your EDTA and see if this works better for you. I'm very curious to know if it does the trick.
 

linne1gi

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I currently do use tetrasodium EDTA, but when that's gone, I'm switching to sodium gluconate. Might be awhile, though.

Yes, I masterbatch tetrasodium EDTA as a 50% concentration (half EDTA powder, half distilled water by weight). It is water clear with no sediment.

My guess is you have disodium EDTA, not tetrasodium. The DI form is only slightly soluble in plain water. You can dissolve DI in an NaOH solution, however. Basically you're converting it to the TETRA form when you do this.

See this article -- EDTA | Soapy Stuff -- and scroll down to the bottom where it says "Extra credit 1: How to convert DIsodium EDTA to TETRAsodium EDTA?" Try it on a small sample of your EDTA and see if this works better for you. I'm very curious to know if it does the trick.
Question for you DeeAnna, if you have the time to answer. I have been mixing my Tetrasodium EDTA into my oils - as a powder. Have I completely lost any benefits, since I have not dissolved it in water?
 

Todd Ziegler

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I currently do use tetrasodium EDTA, but when that's gone, I'm switching to sodium gluconate. Might be awhile, though.

Yes, I masterbatch tetrasodium EDTA as a 50% concentration (half EDTA powder, half distilled water by weight). It is water clear with no sediment.

My guess is you have disodium EDTA, not tetrasodium. The DI form is only slightly soluble in plain water. You can dissolve DI in an NaOH solution, however. Basically you're converting it to the TETRA form when you do this.

See this article -- EDTA | Soapy Stuff -- and scroll down to the bottom where it says "Extra credit 1: How to convert DIsodium EDTA to TETRAsodium EDTA?" Try it on a small sample of your EDTA and see if this works better for you. I'm very curious to know if it does the trick.
Thanks
 

DeeAnna

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...I have been mixing my Tetrasodium EDTA into my oils - as a powder. Have I completely lost any benefits, since I have not dissolved it in water?
If you're making soap the way I do it, you're basically counting on the EDTA to dissolve after you add the lye solution.

I know when tetrasodium EDTA is added to a concentrated solution of NaOH (in other words, the lye we normally use for making soap), the EDTA is not very soluble compared to when you mix it with water. You really do need to get the EDTA dissolved for it to work correctly, especially for the goal of protecting the soap from DOS/rancidity.

I don't have any proof one way or the other whether your method is good or not good. Just guessing here -- I truly don't know the answer.
 

linne1gi

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If you're making soap the way I do it, you're basically counting on the EDTA to dissolve after you add the lye solution.

I know when tetrasodium EDTA is added to a concentrated solution of NaOH (in other words, the lye we normally use for making soap), the EDTA is not very soluble compared to when you mix it with water. You really do need to get the EDTA dissolved for it to work correctly, especially for the goal of protecting the soap from DOS/rancidity.

I don't have any proof one way or the other whether your method is good or not good. Just guessing here -- I truly don't know the answer.
Thanks for your reply.
 

gsc

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A chelator does two things in soap. Its most important function is to immobilize metals in soap that can cause rancidity (aka DOS, dreaded orange spots). A chelator can also reduce the amount of soap scum that is created when lye-based soap reacts with minerals in hard water.

These articles about chelators provide more info -- Table of contents | Soapy Stuff
That information was VERY helpful. I read there was a % ratio for adding acidic juices in laundry detergent but is there a formula to determine how much to use in bar soap?
 

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