Why is my soap drying?

[Mariam Hanif]

Hey! I would really appreciate if anyone could help me in understanding as to why my soap is so drying. The intent of making such a soap was to see how it would turn out without the use of any hard oils. It was our first time of using beeswax. The recipe used was:

Olive Oil: 260g
Castor Oil: 130g
Nigella Seed Oil: 65g
Neem Oil: 117.5g
Sesame Seed Oil: 97.5g
Beeswax: 52g
Water: 195g
Germal Plus: 2.6g

Thank you in advance!

 

[Dawni]

Is this liquid soap? Sorry lol I tried putting it in the calc until I encountered the preservative.

But since you mentioned hard oils I assume it's bar soap. You do not need a preservative for solid soap even if you've used food ingredients. Many use natural colorants and fruit purees without getting the nasty stuff liquid soap would get.

As for dryness... Without coconut oil I can only assume it might need to cure more with your higher percentage of olive oil. It works differently for some people. I for example don't use it anymore above 25-30% because more than that is too drying after the usual 4-6wk cure.

How's the soap? Is it not soft and sticky with that much castor oil and no hard fats? And how's the lather with that amount of beeswax?

 

[Mariam Hanif]

Is this liquid soap? Sorry lol I tried putting it in the calc until I encountered the preservative.

Oh sorry! My bad! Should have mentioned that it is a solid bar soap. NaOH = 87g

 

[Dawni]

Ah yes I edited my response coz I did assume it was solid soap hehe

Hopefully someone more experienced than I can help you more.. The percentages you've used for a couple of things is outside my scope haha

Segue: I'm on my way to Saddar soon haha, I just noticed you're in Karachi

 

[Mariam Hanif]

Ah yes I edited my response coz I did assume it was solid soap hehe

Hopefully someone more experienced than I can help you more.. The percentages you've used for a couple of things is outside my scope haha

Segue: I'm on my way to Saddar soon haha, I just noticed you're in Karachi

Thank you so much for replying and trying! You too from Karachi or just visiting?

 

[Dawni]

Thank you so much for replying and trying! You too from Karachi or just visiting?

You're welcome I've only used max castor oil at, 7% and beeswax at 2% so I have no actual first hand experience with more than that hehe

I sent you a message..

 

[shunt2011]

How old is your soap? Has it been curing at least 6 weeks? Your recipe is mostly liquid oils and no coconut so it won't lather well, especially with beeswax. It may need a much longer cure to be mild. I'm one who doesn't care for Olive oil over about 20-25%. Also, you have a lot of castor oil, I never use more than 10% and generally about 5-7%.

 

[Mariam Hanif]

How old is your soap? Has it been curing at least 6 weeks? Your recipe is mostly liquid oils and no coconut so it won't lather well, especially with beeswax. It may need a much longer cure to be mild. I'm one who doesn't care for Olive oil over about 20-25%. Also, you have a lot of castor oil, I never use more than 10% and generally about 5-7%.

The soap is 8 weeks old! We were experimenting with unusual combinations of oil, which in this case is not using a hard oil. We expected the soap to not have enough lather but very emollient and sticky due to the high content of beeswax and castor oil. After 6 weeks of curing, the soap is lathering pretty okay but its drying.

We have also previously experimented with soaps with low and high castor oil. The soaps with high content of castor oil were much better and didn't result in undesired qualities in soap. Also due to our context, the coconut oil we use is mostly in liquid state. Coconut oil is only in solid form during winters and that too is also for only 3 weeks in a year.

 

[Mariam Hanif]

Is this liquid soap? Sorry lol I tried putting it in the calc until I encountered the preservative.

But since you mentioned hard oils I assume it's bar soap. You do not need a preservative for solid soap even if you've used food ingredients. Many use natural colorants and fruit purees without getting the nasty stuff liquid soap would get.

As for dryness... Without coconut oil I can only assume it might need to cure more with your higher percentage of olive oil. It works differently for some people. I for example don't use it anymore above 25-30% because more than that is too drying after the usual 4-6wk cure.

How's the soap? Is it not soft and sticky with that much castor oil and no hard fats? And how's the lather with that amount of beeswax?

In our first few batches of soap, we never used preservatives. We didn't use preservatives even when we started superfatting (never above 5%) our soaps and used food purees, or honey or milk. But after a few months, samples from those batches started developing molds, therefore we started using preservatives.

And as far as this soap is considered, it is pretty hard and not sticky at all. And lather is decent too! But its very drying which we never expected it to be. So I want to find out why? was it the beeswax? was it the absence of coconut oil? but excessive coconut oil makes a drying bar of soap.

 

[amd]

But after a few months, samples from those batches started developing molds, therefore we started using preservatives.

Did it develop mold or was it soda ash?

But its very drying which we never expected it to be. So I want to find out why?

I suspect the high qty of castor in combination with a high qty of beeswax is making this bar "draggy" and stripping more oils from your skin than you want. I would drop both in half and try it again.

Nigella Seed Oil: 65g
Neem Oil: 117.5g
Sesame Seed Oil: 97.5g

I have no experience with these oils in soap, so I don't know if they are contributing to the problem or not. They could be more cleansing oils which adds to the problem.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...Also due to our context, the coconut oil we use is mostly in liquid state...."

I'm puzzled -- I don't see why that is a problem. In summer, my coconut oil can be liquid too. It makes no difference whether coconut oil is liquid or solid -- when it is turned into soap, it's going to be solid.

"...We didn't use preservatives even when we started superfatting (never above 5%) our soaps and used food purees, or honey or milk. But after a few months, samples from those batches started developing molds..."

If your bar soap (made with NaOH) is actually growing mold, you need to fix that problem. Bar soap should be self preserving, given a reasonable chance, so mold growth should tell you there's a problem to be fixed, not something to cover up with the "band-aid" of preservative. You are using too much of these food additives, or the additives are not sufficiently mixed with the soap, or the puree particles are too large, or too much of the puree is concentrated at the surface so it is exposed to air and ambient moisture.

Or the "mold" is actually ash, as Amd suggested.

 

[Mariam Hanif]

Did it develop mold or was it soda ash?


I suspect the high qty of castor in combination with a high qty of beeswax is making this bar "draggy" and stripping more oils from your skin than you want. I would drop both in half and try it again.

I have no experience with these oils in soap, so I don't know if they are contributing to the problem or not. They could be more cleansing oils which adds to the problem.

Its Mold

Oh okay. We will definitely try it. Can you also explain "draggy"? What is chemically happening that is resulting these two ingredients into stripping the skin of its oils.

These oils contain the following fatty acids, maybe that might help you understand the nature:

Nigella Seed Oil: Linoleic 57.9, Oleic 23.7, Palmitic 13.7, Stearic 2.6, Archidic 1.7
Neem Oil: Oleic 50, Palmitic 18, Stearic 15, Linoleic 13
Sesame Seed Oil: Linoleic 39-47, Oleic 37-42, Palmitic 8 - 11, Stearic 4 - 6​

 

[Dawni]

I don't think it's the neem nor the blackseed as I use both and they're quite nice in soap actually..

Draggy is when you slide the soap (or lotion bar) on your skin and it doesn't actually glide smoothly.. As if it lightly taps on the breaks every now n then lol

I'd check what DeeAnna has mentioned if it is indeed mold.... Or you could tell us how n when you're adding your additives into the soap so we can help figure out where the problem is, if it is the additives or something else.

Also, what water are you using?

Lastly, how are you curing the soap, and storing them after they've sufficiently cured (how long do you cure?)?

 

[Mariam Hanif]

"I'm puzzled -- I don't see why that is a problem. In summer, my coconut oil can be liquid too. It makes no difference whether coconut oil is liquid or solid -- when it is turned into soap, it's going to be solid."

I don't find an issue with it either. Mostly all the tutorials that we see online have coconut oil that is in solid state, so I just mentioned that ours is always in liquid state, thinking that may be that is of some importance.

"If your bar soap (made with NaOH) is actually growing mold, you need to fix that problem. Bar soap should be self preserving, given a reasonable chance, so mold growth should tell you there's a problem to be fixed, not something to cover up with the "band-aid" of preservative. You are using too much of these food additives, or the additives are not sufficiently mixed with the soap, or the puree particles are too large, or too much of the puree is concentrated at the surface so it is exposed to air and ambient moisture."

I am attaching pictures of soaps and their recipe below so that you can guide us better.

We think its not soda Ash because it does not look feel like the soda ash that we had previously in other soaps. Its like small soft white balls and it developed after 5 months.

Above soap had the following recipe:

Olive Oil: 280g
Coconut Oil: 280g
Sesame Seed Oil: 200g
Castor Oil: 40g
NaOH: 120g
Milk (frozen and used instead of water to make lye solution): 264g

The black wool like spots started appearing in the soap bar which was used after 5 months of curing. Its recipe is as follows:

Olive Oil: 240g
Coconut Oil: 320g
Sesame Seed Oil: 240g
Powdered oats (added at slight trace): 120g
Honey (Added at slight trace): 50g
NaOH: 125g
Water: 264g

 

[Dawni]

The first doesn't look like ash to me but I'm no expert. There are pics around the forum of ash that look like fur even haha so there's not just one look to ash. Does the white stuff also smell moldy?

The second is scary lol and it could be the oats? I have a soap with ground oats that were mixed in before trace, and no molds a year on, so I go back to what I earlier asked about water and storage, and to what DeeAnna said about foodstuff.

Also, going back to the drying question... I think I'll agree with amd, coz I remember reading that high castor oil in soap is drying for some people. Maybe combining it with that much beeswax is having an adverse effect? You'll have to experiment with less amounts of either I guess..

 

[Mariam Hanif]

I don't think it's the neem nor the blackseed as I use both and they're quite nice in soap actually..

Draggy is when you slide the soap (or lotion bar) on your skin and it doesn't actually glide smoothly.. As if it lightly taps on the breaks every now n then lol

I'd check what DeeAnna has mentioned if it is indeed mold.... Or you could tell us how n when you're adding your additives into the soap so we can help figure out where the problem is, if it is the additives or something else.

Also, what water are you using?

Lastly, how are you curing the soap, and storing them after they've sufficiently cured (how long do you cure?)?

After the soap is cut, we put them on shelves that has good air circulation. We make sure that the soap has cured for a minimum of 6 weeks before using them. We do not move them from those shelves after 6 weeks since we want to see how time period of curing affects our soaps from the same batch. Its been only a year I have been making soaps and there are so many posts here where people cure their soaps for months and sometimes even a year so I guess I am not at a stage of storing my soaps somewhere else after curing.

 

[Mariam Hanif]

The first doesn't look like ash to me but I'm no expert. There are pics around the forum of ash that look like fur even haha so there's not just one look to ash. Does the white stuff also smell moldy?

The second is scary lol and it could be the oats? I have a soap with ground oats that were mixed in before trace, and no molds a year on, so I go back to what I earlier asked about water and storage, and to what DeeAnna said about foodstuff.

Also, going back to the drying question... I think I'll agree with amd, coz I remember reading that high castor oil in soap is drying for some people. Maybe combining it with that much beeswax is having an adverse effect? You'll have to experiment with less amounts of either I guess..

It was only one bar of oat soap that developed mold. I still have some bars of the same batch which are doing just fine. I am definitely going to try what amd suggested and post my findings here.

 

[shunt2011]

The soap is 8 weeks old! We were experimenting with unusual combinations of oil, which in this case is not using a hard oil. We expected the soap to not have enough lather but very emollient and sticky due to the high content of beeswax and castor oil. After 6 weeks of curing, the soap is lathering pretty okay but its drying.

We have also previously experimented with soaps with low and high castor oil. The soaps with high content of castor oil were much better and didn't result in undesired qualities in soap. Also due to our context, the coconut oil we use is mostly in liquid state. Coconut oil is only in solid form during winters and that too is also for only 3 weeks in a year.

Castor oil does not create lather, it stabilizes lather from other oils like coconut or PKO.

Sesame oil has a short shelf life and I would think with that and Neem you must have some mighty smelly soaps as well.

If you are getting molds you have a lot more going on. Preservative is not going to stop what you have. The recipe for your first photo has below a 1% Superfat. with 35% Coconut oil. that would strip every last oil from a persons skin and not be a nice soap.

Your second recipe has a -2 Superfat. It's no wonder your soaps are stripping/drying. Also, adding over an ounce of honey in with the oats is likely asking for trouble. Though I use both in my soaps and have never had mold. Though it looks like you've got really large chunks of oats in there and with the honey likely lots of food for molds.

What kind of water are you using? Distilled or RO is recommended.

 

[Dahila]

May I add that soap gets so hot it deactivate the preservative, Anything over 45 Celsius and it stopped working. the first pick maybe ash I had ash like that in my Dandelion soap with a lot of botanicals, the second pic; looks really scary

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Do you grind the oats yourself? They look like the “steel cut” type of oats, which in the US means they are little chunks rather than the flake type of oats. I am guessing that little chunks of hard oat kernels would be more problematic than small flat pieces of rolled oats that have mostly surface area in contact with the soap. I recently made some soap with ground rolled oats and have been worried that I didn’t grind it up enough. Luckily it’s just for my son to test. I’m sure he will let me know if it starts to grow mold!

As for the white stuff on the first bar, it makes me think of the mold that grows on hard cheese, which I think is actually harmful. Still, I would not buy soap that looks like that. More info on mold on cheese at this website:

https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/06...an-parmagiano-reggiano-emmenthaler-swiss.html