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Which Olive Oil do you use? and problem with OO or TD?

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Hi all you soap lovies!

Am sure this question has been asked a zillion times....but when I search...I do not come up with many threads....hmmm, could be the person searching ;)

I had been using olive oils from soap making suppliers and also store bought....mainly filippo. Had no troubles. I recently was in BJ's (similar to Costco) and bought Pompeian. Searching the net I found some soapers have had good luck. While I did read they were on the 'fake olive oil' list, others were too, which some soapers had great success with.

I have been using TD from Bramble Berry.....also with great success. Recently I made two batches of soap and each batch the TD did not mix well. After I add the TD mix, I stick blend and all looks well blended, no swirly looking batter, looks solid cream colour. After taking out of mold, the bottom of the soap (which is the top in the mold) left a 'pattern' as if I meant to have a swirly effect but the top of soap (which is in the bottom of the mold) is soild looking. I always use 1 tsp ppo to 1 tbsp of safflower oil to blend (very well) then add to soap batter at thin trace. I also added the EO, one I have been using all along, to the TD mix then added to the batter.

This is the same recipe I have always used, no changes were made. I do soap at a discount water discount of 32%, 5% SF. My lye is not old, my other oils are all fresh. I blended the lye with oil at or around 110 with always a 10 degree only difference with the lye and oils. I've even gone back to the lye calc and redid this thinking somewhere along the way I have changed something. No difference in soap calc amounts.

Is this the oil????

Before I go any further, and before I pull my hair out.....wanted to ask if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks! :headbanging:
 

ngian

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Hello VermontSOapyChick, I think it would be a big help to all who are reading you if you could tell us your recipe (oils & water) in weight.

Moreover a photograph of the phenomenon would be even more helpful.

Nikos
 

IrishLass

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Welcome VermontSoapyChick!

I use Costco's in-store Kirkland brand Pure Olive Oil for my soap, which is on the list of un-tainted olive oils. I've been using it exclusively for about 11 years now and it always soaps great for me.

It sounds like you are pouring into individual/decorative soap molds- aka MilkyWay-type molds?

Ditto what Ngian said- knowing a complete recipe is always of great help to us in helping others troubleshoot.

If I had to make a guess, though, it's quite possible that your batter was too much on the thin side when you poured, causing the TD to come out of suspension and sink to the bottom of your mold.


IrishLass :)
 

shunt2011

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I agree, your recipe would help. I've only ever used OO from Costco and not had any issues. Bit can't speak to any other brands which I'm sure others have.
 

lenarenee

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At the moment I'm inclined to agree with Irish Lass. Did you use BB's water or oil soluble td?
 

Soapsense

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I was going to buy some of that Olive oil (Pompeian) As BJ's no longer sells the Wellsley Farms brand that I used to buy, and the Pompeian is at a decent price.
Maybe I should rethink that.
 

Lee242

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I read some where that OO is OO and a lot just use the cheapest they can get.
I usually get mine from walmart and have used 4 or 5 different brands all of them seemed to work about the same. But the people here will g.ive you the best advice
 

shunt2011

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I read some where that OO is OO and a lot just use the cheapest they can get.
I usually get mine from walmart and have used 4 or 5 different brands all of them seemed to work about the same. But the people here will g.ive you the best advice

That's not true at all. They are finding that many brands are adulterated and not necessarily all olive oil.
 

Gerry

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That's not true at all. They are finding that many brands are adulterated and not necessarily all olive oil.
I've seen sites that quote a study listing Bertolli, Colavita, and Filippo as all fake olive oils. Give me a break! All these oils are NAOOA Certified, meaning they must meet or exceed the International Olive Council (IOC) standard by regular and random testing.

All this nonsense stems from the US Davis report (yes, the tobacco people), funded by the California olive industry. The study never actually said they were "fake" oils, but provided a lengthy list of almost every non-Californian brand that didn't live up to what they deemed to be "Extra Virgin" standards. The Fake News sites jumped on this, then the media, all saying the oils were adulterated or not from olives at all. Here is Colavita's response: http://main.colavita.com/a-letter-from-our-ceo/

The study was non-scientific and long ago discredited but it still lingers today. Fake news has a way of surviving years. Even the North American Olive Oil Association says the Davis study is just made-up garbage to promote the Californian producer lobby and discredit every other source: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110414006251/en/UC-Davis-Study-Imported-Olive-Oils-Flawed

There have been many followup studies done to determine the rate of alteration or substitution, and all these oils listed in the original report passed with flying colors. If anything this flawed and biased study at least had the effect of greater monitoring of olive oil quality in the industry.

Let's put on our reality hats for a second and realize that anyone with some money can send a sample of cheap "Great Value" Walmart oil to a lab for testing for adulteration. If it did test positive, imagine the damage to the Walmart name, and the lawsuits that would follow!

Now in response to the original poster, I wonder if the soap gelled and got pretty hot? TD "patterns" makes me think glycerin rivers. A photo though would be helpful!
 

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Gerry

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Costco takes the adulterated EVOO problem seriously.
While I'd hope that all major retailers take adulterated products seriously, the article you posted states that Costco switched to Greece made oil because it was cheaper (higher margins!), not because it was adulterated. Just saying :)
 

lenarenee

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The adulteration of olive oil has a long, long history that goes back a thousand years. Adulteration is even part of the olive "culture" because it is so rampant in the olive producing countries. Its been a constant, chronic problem. Given the way olives and its oils are stored, shipped, processed - there's dozens of openings for adulteration long before you even get to the classification process for olive oil. The FDA doesn't test olive oil for purity and has no plans to in the future.
 
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Thank you all for your replies and the welcome!!

After thinking and staring at the soaps with all your wonderful knowledge, a bell went off from what IrishLash said. Yes, am using individual molds (silicone) and when I turned over a soap, realized the only parts that had the whitish painterly look was on the top and oddly sporadic on the sides but NOT on the bottom which is the top. I did not notice this before. (Scratching my head on how I did NOT see this before....amazing how we can stare at something and its right there in front of us....perhaps new glasses are in order!) So it sunk!! I also re-washed the silicone molds in case there was a film left. What I do not understand now is why ALL individual soaps had this happen when I poured the last 8 the batter was pudding consistency and not so sure how it would drift to the sides and bottom only. Hmmmm.

There are no sign of glycerin rivers Gerry. SoapSense....let me know if you do try the BJ's oil and results, might be worth trying a small batch as it may be something I am doing and not the oil since there seems to be a lot of controversy about OO. Lenarenee, am using BB's TD that is both water and oil soluble (still haven't figured out which is better to mix with??).

I wanted to post a pic but in the pic it doesnt show up....cheap camera phone!

Here is the recipe:

7.7 oz Distilled H2O
3.5 oz NaOH

OO 43%
Coconut Oil 20%
PKO 22%
Shea 8%
Castor 6%

Again, your kindness of help is greatly appreciated!!

VSC
 

CaraBou

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I think IL's offering about gravity makes a bit of sense. Can you post some pics to judge that theory?

And before we get too carried way about OO quality, I pose a couple relevant questions...

Is the problem with adulteration specific to extra virgin, or is there evidence it affects non-virgin as well? Are we talking about tainting with other vegetable oils, or completely foreign chemicals? Just thinking we should get more grounded here to effectively answer the OPs questions.
 
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kchaystack

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Hey VSC welcome aboard.

Here are my comments about your recipe:

Coconut oil and PKO are very chemically similar. They have large amounts of Lauric fatty acids. This kind of soap really likes to strip oils out of your skin and can dry out your skin.

Most of us recommend keeping the coconut, pko, and/or babassu oils to under 20% combined at first. Tho your skin might not react badly at all, and it depends on what your lye discount (superfat) is.

Also if you are not going to use a high stearic oil (palm, lard or tallow) you will find the soap will stay soft longer and require a longer cure.

I am not saying this won't be lovely - just giving you tips on what I see. Like I said, your skin is different than mine. :)

Happy soaping
 

dixiedragon

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Is it possibly soda ash?

Also, is it possible you soaped cool and the oils were thick, and that maybe caused the TD to not blend in correctly?

And lastly - is this a new bag of TD or the same bag that has worked before?
 

Obsidian

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When I'm making a single color soap, I add the color to the oils before adding the lye. That way I can blend like crazy and not worry about reaching trace too soon.

As for as the OO goes. I was using costco's but when my membership ran out, I switched to cheap pomace and I don't notice a difference in the finished soap. Pomace can trace a bit faster but that is literally the only difference I've seen. I have no issues with DOS or rancid soap.
Since I only make soap for family, I'm not worried about adulterated OO. If I was selling, it would be different and I would use kirkland since it passed the purity testing.
 
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Obsidian...Always wondered if the colour could be added before the lye. Am guessing this will not alter the saponification process if colour is added before hand?

I don't think it is soda ash, have had this before and would recognize it and the bag of TD is somewhat brandy new to me and have made at least 20lbs with this particular bag. I started to pour between a thin and medium trace and as I kept pouring became more like pudding consistency. From beginning to end it all look equally blended into the oils. I do think chemically the TD sank but still doesn't explain why the sides where blotchy with TD. In any case, I "washed" them with a wet make up brush very lightly and all came off leaving the soap looking like all the others made. Now to let them cure even longer. Am going to try another batch and see what happens....will post results.

kchaystack, Great to know about the % for the coconut and PKO suggestion. Like all skin is different as you mention but I do not find this drying for me, for now :)

Noticing on some comments about low grade OO and DOS..... I've never experienced DOS with 'cheap' brands but have had DOS with well known OO many soapers use. It seems there is also a difference of views how DOS is created.....perhaps another topic ;)

Thank you all you savvy soapers and sharing your insights and super amazing knowledge!

:wave:
VSC
 

topofmurrayhill

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And before we get too carried way about OO quality, I pose a couple relevant questions.

Is the problem with adulteration specific to extra virgin, or is there evidence it affects non-virgin as well? Are we talking about tainting with other vegetable oils, or completely foreign chemicals? Just thinking we should get more grounded here to effectively answer the OPs questions.
The problem would be with EVOO because that's the valuable stuff. Having said that, I think "adulteration" got all the attention in the media and that's the thing most people came away with. The story wasn't all or even mostly about fake oil as I remember it.

Adulteration has happened, but a lot of it was just about whether the oil measured up to the sensory qualities that EVOO should have. In other words, that much of the oil was more or less sucky extra virgin for various reasons including signs of rancidity or certain defects based on the condition of the olives when they were processed.

This stuff is subjective, but there are people who are good at it, and it's probably true that Americans on the whole have more tolerance for defects and less family with high quality oil.

Maybe the California olive industry had a hand in all this as suggested, but then again California olive oil is terrific. That's what I trust most and go with for eating. It's rather free of suckage.
 
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