What do I call it?

[SoapAddict415]

I want to make a cocoa butter or a double butter castile but my understanding is that a castile is a single oil soap, more commonly 100% OO. If I use more than 1 oil it's basically a bastille (bastardized castile) even though I have seen "castile" soaps that have more than 1 oil listed on the label. If I use 72% OO (which is what I prefer) it could be considered a Savon De Marseille soap but if I'm right, legally only soaps made in that city can be called that. I'm not sure why I'm stuck on calling it a castile, probably because I don't think those who don't make soap know what a bastille is. So what could I call my soap? Could I refer to it as a castile type? Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[Obsidian]

I wouldn't as its not Castile. Why does it have to have such a specific label? Just call it soap and label the ingredients.
I personally dislike the name Bastille and you are right, most people won't know what it is.

 

[Soapprentice]

I think people name Bastille soaps as Castile for the exactly same reason you want to call it Castile. Personally I would call mine Bastille as I like to be as precise as possible. I suppose you could call it Cocoa Butter soap.

 

[SoapAddict415]

[Obsidian;679919] I wouldn't as its not Castile. Why does it have to have such a specific label?

That is a very good question. It's just stuck my head for some crazy reason to want to call it cocoa butter castile.

I will probably end up calling it cocoa butter soap like Soapprentice suggested.

 

[cmzaha]

I also hate /dislike the name Bastile

 

[SoapAddict415]

I also hate /dislike the name Bastile

I like "not a typical castile" as a substitute for bastille.

 

[Obsidian]

I simply call bastile "soap", I think my reasoning is due to the term "bastardization". To me it sounds derogatory and rude.

If you use two butters, you could call is double butter olive soap, kinda long but sounds luxurious.

 

[dibbles]

You could use savon in the name. Savon de (French for olive or butter). Or add a bit of almond or other nut oil and call it butternut.

 

[DeeAnna]

Castile as 100% olive oil soap is probably what most soapers mean when they talk about Castile soap.

One could argue that any 100% olive oil soap not specifically from the Castile region of Spain is not really a Castile soap using the same logic that says sparkling wine from California is not Champagne.

On the other hand, a US court decision from the 1930s and common usage by consumers around the world for over 100 years have shown that most people think of a "castile soap" to be any soap made with vegetable oils.

I guess you get to pick and choose.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Dictionaries describe Castile as an olive-oil-based hard soap made in a style similar to that originating in the Castile region of Spain.

Soapmakers "Lingo"
Originally, among soapmakers, "Castile" soap was used to differentiate all-vegetable soap from soap made from animal fat such as tallow and lard.

Over time, we started to use "Castile" to indicate 100% olive oil soap; vs. "Bastille" to indicate a soap made with at least 70% olive oil plus other vegetable oils/fats/butters, i.e., no animal fat.

Examples of commercial Castile Soaps:

Dr. Bronner's Pure Castile Soap ~ NB: Olive Oil is not the primary oil but it is all vegetable, no animal fats.
Ingredients: Water, Organic Coconut Oil*, Potassium Hydroxide**, Organic Palm Kernel Oil*, Organic Olive Oil*, Mentha Arvensis, Organic Hemp Oil, Organic Jojoba Oil, Mentha Piperita, Citric Acid, Tocopherol
*CERTIFIED FAIR TRADE INGREDIENTS
**None remains after saponifying oils into soap & glycerin.

https://shop.drbronner.com/

Kirk's Coco Castile ~ Contains NO olive oil but took it to court and won the right to continue to call the soap "Castile".

Ingredients: Sodium Cocoate,Water, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Gluconate, Fragrance

https://www.kirksnatural.com/products/original-bar-soap/

Bottom line? Feel free to call your 72% olive oil plus 2 butters a Castile... unless you're talking to us, of course, then you should probably use the lingo.

HTH :bunny:

ETA: Lingo definition: The vocabulary or jargon of a particular subject or group of people.​

 

[SoapAddict415]

See? That's what I LOVE about this forum! I always learn something new! Thank you DeeAnna and Zany!
Reasoning that's it's all vegetable oils, I guess I could call it a cocoa butter castile or a double butter castile.
Sent from my Z828 using Soap Making mobile app

 

[Susie]

I would call it cocoa butter soap. No matter whether you call it castile or bastile, someone is going to disagree with you. I would skip naming it by ingredients and call it by whatever you scent it with, or if you do a landscape soap, call it whatever the scene is.

 

[SoapAddict415]

I would call it cocoa butter soap. No matter whether you call it castile or bastile, someone is going to disagree with you. I would skip naming it by ingredients and call it by whatever you scent it with, or if you do a landscape soap, call it whatever the scene is.

True, someone is always going to disagree with something. I was just looking at color schemes on Pinterest that I could use in soap making. Maybe instead of landscapes, I could name the soap after the color palette title like Nora's Bedroom (scented in Amish Quilt fo) or Indigo Petals (scented in blackberry sage or blueberry muffin fo) for example.

 

[earlene]

For me I don't like calling any soap Castile unless it is made only with OO. That's me.

But I do like naming soap based on a variety of things. Sometimes it's where I was when I made it, or an ingredient or an even or a design. For example my 'Las Vegas Avocado' soap was made while I was in Las Vegas, using, you guessed it, avocado. When Hurricane Irma interrupted our travel plans recently, I named a soap 'Irma' using a design that looked quite stormy. When I was in California during the wildfires a short while ago, I named my soap after the wildfires, although the design didn't look like fire. I have a soap that I call 'Green Tomatoes' because it's made with tomato sauce and a green colorant made it green. I even called some of my black soap 'Darth Vader' soap because of the dark lather and it was for kids at Halloween time. My Kombucha Tea soap is called 'Kombucha Soa'p because of the ingredient, the same with 'Beer Soap'. Once in a while I will name a soap for the scent or the color, but it feels a little unimaginative when I call light purple soap 'Lavender Soap' and even confusing if it's not scented with a lavender flower scent. (Recently I gave some unscented purple soap to someone and they insisted it was fragranced with lavender because I wrote 'Lavender Soap' on the label, even though it was labelled a s fragrance-free.)

 

[IrishLass]

Nothing wrong with just calling it a cocoa butter soap. When I name my soaps, I just name them by whatever oils/butters are most prominent in my formula. Or you can always do what the Colgate company did when they named their soap made from palm oil and olive oil as 'Palmolive'.

Whatever you name it, I'd refrain from calling it 'Bastile', since that is only a tongue-in-cheek, made-up nickname that folks outside of the soapmaking world would not 'get'. It originated over at the Dish forum when a soaper jokingly referred to her mostly olive oil soap as a Bastile (for bastardized castile). Everyone loved the nickname and it took off like wildfire to the point that everyone now thinks its an official name or something, but it's not.


IrishLass

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Reasoning that's it's all vegetable oils, I guess I could call it a cocoa butter castile or a double butter castile.

Perfect! And you're most welcome.

 

[jcandleattic]

Me personally - I don't understand the hang-up and dislike of the word Bastille. But that's just me. I call my high olive oil, but not 100% OO soaps Bastille. Sells just as well as any other soap I make.
I don't think the general consumer even cares as long as it's a well made soap, feels nice on the skin and gets them clean.
JMO though...

 

[Saranac]

My two scents :think:--

If it's just for you (or friends/family), call it what you wish.
If you're selling, take some time to come up with a name you can live with that customers are going to understand.

As others have noted, Bastille has a meaning among soapers, but the general public isn't going to know what it means. And while you can explain it if they ask, is it going to be worth it? (I.E. result in sales?) In my area, I get asked very regularly if I make a Castille soap. The answer is always "no," but even after explaining why I "can't" make a Castille, they continue to push; "you really should."

I used to work in the wine industry (for a while I lived and worked in France, including in a vineyard), and I have a deep respect for local tradition; I don't feel it's my place to overstep and dilute long-standing brands. As such, I won't ever market a Castille (or even--to take direction from the American wine industry--an "American Castille").

But that's my opinion and I don't judge other who do. As has been noted, the US government ruled on this and you have the legal right (at least in the States) to use the term.

Personally, I just call it all soap and let the scent do the advertising!